BuzzerBeater Forums

Eh, your ignorance and incompetence is exposed and that is your comeback!? Weak. And very sad.

If you need help in d4 against people whose only goal is training, there is a mentoring thread for people like you. In any case, considering your ineptitude at anything other than putting the time in and trading, I'd suggest just running a lot more salary than anyone else and bot promoting.

For the bigger problem, your inability to count, I suggest you try a school. I'm sure they can help people with special needs to process 170-(16*5).

Oh my gosh. Stop. Please, both of you!

@Evaristo, this is embarrassing.

@Lemonshine - you're usually right about a lot of things on here. But you also come across as a dick. Basically, someone I wouldn't really want to be friends with in real life.

Entertaining as this little spat has been, can we go back on topic please? I mean, injuries suck when you get them, but I think they're for the better of the game.

And I've run a level 1 doctor for years. Doctors are not worth the money you spend on them, that's my argument. Fight me. Or honestly, don't, I don't want to get involved in a squabble. I'll throw my opinion out there, and go back to lurking okay ...

What is exposed is your incompetence to maintain a debate.

Not my fault, you came in, contributed nothing, then lost every single line of this little talk and now you're whining about it lol.

next time I'd rather answer to that Japanese guy

that guy knows 100 times more than you about this game. You are out of your depth here, just go back to the spanish forums or d4 where you, as someone who can't compete without training, seem to stuck.

But if you are happy beating bots

At least you admit one of us is beating something. I have played fewer bots than you have in your career as a BB manager, but we already established you cannot count, you don't need to repeat the same stupid concept.

paying level 7 staff

more incorrect assumptions. Can't you get one right even by chance? just one, man.

and if you think you win a debate with only ad-hominem attacks,

cry me a river, stop whining and grow a pair will ya? Saying that you are incompetent, ignorant and cannot count is not an ad hominem, it's just stating facts.

Pity ignorant and incompetent people

You seem confused, we had already established you are the ignorant and incompetent here. Weak unoriginal try, very weak

Last edited by Lemonshine at 6/15/2019 1:37:33 PM

I mean, injuries suck when you get them, but I think they're for the better of the game.

Most people agree, just look at that poll. And I'm in favour of returning to 5 weeks injuries (mitigated by higher level staff, so that if you have a lvl 7 you really shouldn't get over 1 week) although 8 weeks as Joey Ka mentioned seems excessive (but I'm not opposed as long as higher doctor levels cap the maximum length of an injury at lower values)

I mean, injuries suck when you get them, but I think they're for the better of the game.

I need to collect more data, but it looks Marin may have done something secretly as there have not been 5 weeks injuries that I could see in quite a while on NT Scout and the last official information I can remember from staff on injuries was that 5 weeks is the maximum and doctor level does not affect length. That was Perpete and Jason I believe. I will get all the data available on injuries suffered by players who are still active, maybe I just haven't come across one recently being nominally over 3 weeks. Something may have been changed a couple of years ago when they included injury data in the player history page. Also remember that years ago most users believed based on empirical evidence that 1 week injuries basically lasted a minimum of 7 days and a maximum of 13, while more recently there have been cases of injuries lasting only 4 or 5 days.

Official claim from staff is that doctors only influence the likelihood of an injury happening and becoming permanent, but not the length, but even then it's not advisable to increase the risk of injury to high salary players, high potential trainees or to any rotation player early in the season (because you will take a huge hit to GS). Of the three staff members, assuming you don't train and have high salary players, doctors are the only ones that make sense paying as insurance, the other 2 staff you should pay less than $100/week.

I already have overwhelming evidence that injuries with a lvl 1 doctor are a lot more frequent than with higher levels, but as I said i will extract all the data possible and show it with numbers.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 6/15/2019 2:19:17 PM

(244842.7)

(244842.14)

If 5 weeks injuries still existed (and it seems they don't anymore) would you feel the same way?

A long time ago, another manager had a 5 week injury to a 120k+ player in the EBBL and he told me he didn't have a low level doctor (could not verify this though, as at the time it wasn't possible, so I can't say for sure).

In European leagues there are currently 13 - 3 week injuries; 424 - 2 week injuries (or 3 week that reduced) and 1291 - 1 week injuries. Now imagine these 1700 injuries were spread over 5 weeks instead of 3: now suddenly instead of 13 3 week injuries you have 200 and it's not just a remote possibility anymore.

It does seem Marin changed stuff without announcing anything and that injuries are now shorter thereby reducing how useful the doctor is. It looks as if 1 and 2 weeks injuries are now well over 90% of the cases with 1 week more likely than 2 weeks.

In any case, I did say it may make sense to go low level if you don't have NT/very high salary players and/or high potential trainees. If you have a NT player or 200k salary player and he goes down, then you are paying 200k-250k salary (and missed merch) for nothing. That's equivalent to paying an advanced doctor instead of a minimum one for 20 weeks.


Last edited by Lemonshine at 6/19/2019 5:16:25 AM

Official claim from staff is that doctors only influence the likelihood of an injury happening and becoming permanent, but not the length

Hmm the game manual seems to contradict this:

Doctors help reduce the severity of player injuries. Once a player is injured, a Doctor will also help him heal more quickly, but the effect is much smaller than the initial reduction in severity

According to the game manual, doctors reduce the severity and length of an injury, so you'd be right in saying the doctor affects the likelihood of an injury becoming permanent, but there's nothing to suggest they have any influence over the injury happening in the first place. Considering that the game manual was written by the guys who designed the game, I'd trust it over forum post even from guys like Perpete.

I'd trust it over forum post even from guys like Perpete.

On a balance, considering Perpete was already GM, I don't think he pulled numbers out of thin air. I would believe anything Jason said on forums unless someone shows me proof of the contrary. That thread is more recent than the Forrest post about injuries when they changed the mechanics, so I believe everything written there is valid.

Forrest said this when they shortened the injuries:
(21282.28)

This bit

we added in doctors skill into the formula which determines how severe the injury is (including the chance that the injury doesn't translate into an injury which lasts longer than the game).

can still be interpreted 2 ways:
- Better doctor = shorter injuries (reduces the length after an initial number of weeks is randomly calculated)
- Better doctor = lower chance of injuries and specifically lower chance of injuries of any length

The first point has never been confirmed, as far as I know, and there have been reported cases of max length injuries (5 week) with good (lvl 5) doctors, which makes the first point extremely unlikely if true. You can see people mentioning cases in this thread (265160.5).

The second point is definitely true and it's very likely how this plays out. A higher level doctor does not cap the length of injuries, but it does lower the chance of getting injuries of any length (perhaps more so for longer injuries).

Now everything seems quite academic since 5 week injuries seem to have disappeared.

Marin also seemed to link the doctor level to the chance that the injury sublevels reduce slower than anticipated, but I wouldn't necessarily trust him on this:
(270807.8)

Also I will just point out that the Game Manual is not always correct. I've asked Marin multiple times to change the text of the Game Manual on things that were blatantly incorrect or unclear, sometimes suggesting alternative text for the English version.




Last edited by Lemonshine at 6/20/2019 4:44:42 PM

Next time I'd rather answer to that Japanese guy that says that only IS and OD is needed.

Did someone say [ODDRISfury, Blessed ODDRIS of the ODDRISseeker]?

I think Ragsdale got a +4 last season, and I always carry a lvl 4 doctor.

ODDRIS

edit: just saying hello to HAHA when he bumps this thread 7 years from now
edit2: nope looks like 2 weeks or less
edit3: ODDRIS

Last edited by Harold Miner at 6/22/2019 11:34:50 PM

I think Ragsdale got a +4 last season, and I always carry a lvl 4 doctor.

he had a +2 not +4. Still haven't seen any injury beyond 4 weeks but I haven't written the code to check each player's history to see when the last 5 week injury was