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From: jimrtex
This Post:
00
2368.6 in reply to 2368.2
Date: 10/24/2007 9:39:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
I assume you try to set conditions somewhat similar for new teams. That is, their players are at least nominally comparable. They have the same amount of cash, arena, etc. This is simple fairness.

But they take over the record and schedule of another owner. Please understand, I'm not whining about my position, but simply using my team as an example. The original bot was 8-1. Then the first owners were assigned in mid-season. My team's first human owner was 1-9, losing by an average of 27 points per game. I won the last 3 games. Overall, at 12-10 I was tied for 5th best record in the league, but because of the point difference, I was 6th in my conference and facing relegation. If there had been one team placed in D.V, then I could have been relegated. I won 2 of 3 to take the series, with the only loss in 2 OT. 10% of my season ticket holders left the team. Had it not been for the fluke of a very good bot, my team would have been mired in 8th place.

All the teams in my league had 3 or 4 names last season, the original bots for 10 games, followed by a first owner, and then one or two new owners. I think with 3 league games, I am one of the veterans. And because of the bot cleanup, there are only 8 active teams in my league. Had there been a LSL, you could have filled as many D.IV leagues as possible from the LSL's, just as you filled all the D.III leagues from D.IV (or you might have even been placing the best teams from the LSL's into D.III).

Starting out, I would rather have been placed with other owners who were starting out, with a 0-0 record, and let us try to understand how games are played. Perhaps start looking at training or the TL. Bunches of those new owners will do zero. But in a way that is good, since the teams that do actually try the game will be relatively successful.

I don't understand why you say that owners who enter the league late will be at a disadvantage. With small leagues, you will fill each one within days if not hours. It is intended that those who enter very late, say when there are only time for 4 games to be at a relative disadvantage, to teams who played 10 games. But they won't be in the same LSL. You fill each LSL as quickly as possible, and then create another one. You don't refill.

Another way of looking at it, is as if you told people who signed up late in the season, that they were going on a waiting list, but while you're on that waiting list, you can start playing games against other teams. And we will use that performance to place your team at the start of the new season.

I agree that a freshly reset team won't be much of a challenge for established teams. But that is part of the problem. Some of the established teams will have played the previous team on autopiliot (which may be reasonably good - a bot took my league championship), and some will play the new owner.

From: jimrtex

This Post:
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2368.7 in reply to 2368.3
Date: 10/24/2007 9:53:22 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
anyway, I understand where you are coming from, but as BB-forrest points out, creating a separate league adds another layer of unnecessary learning for the new player.

When someone starts out, they are going to be doing good to set their lineups for their games. If they have a lot of time on their hands, they might try to figure out training or the TL. I am saying they should be playing against similar new teams who started at 0-0.

An active player should always do better than a reset or inactively owned team (unless they are a complete dolt or 8 years old)

But some new active owners are assigned teams that are 14-6 and others teams that are 4-16. All the owners in my league were replaced twice, with the last owners taking over late in the season.

From: snuzers

This Post:
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2368.8 in reply to 2368.7
Date: 10/24/2007 11:04:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
So, instead of a guy taking over a team right away, he plays with a "temporary team" until the next season? Does he get all new players with his "permanent" team at season start? Personally, I'd rather take over a 1-16 team and know this was my team and start working on it. I think you are overstating the situation with new teams. Sure, it would be nice to get a team right at the start of a season, maybe. AGain, I would rather get my team half way through, get my players, sell the scrap, and start learning. Then when the next full season starts, I'm ready to go. I know my starters, I know who my trainees are and I start playing.
I think the half or quarter or tenth of a season you play initially is valuable in that you learn the game with your actual team....not a temporay one.

This Post:
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2368.9 in reply to 2368.8
Date: 10/25/2007 5:13:09 AM
1986 Celtics
IV.30
Overall Posts Rated:
88
i don't think he was suggesting temporary players, just a temporary league.

From: jimrtex

This Post:
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2368.10 in reply to 2368.8
Date: 10/25/2007 7:48:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
No you would get your players and be placed in a mini-league with other teams that signed up about the same time. You would all be 0-0.

Instead of playing 5 league games and then spending 2 weeks playing scrimmages, you would get 10 league games. If there were 5 league games remaining, there would be 12 game dates (Tu, Th, Sa), so the mini-league might play 3 games, 3 games, 2 games, 2 games, with scrimmage dates the last two weeks. Or if it was simpler to program using the regular schedule, you would simply play the last 8 games of the schedule.

At the end of the season, everyone would be "promoted" into a regular league, with placement based on your actual performance.

From: jimrtex
This Post:
00
2368.11 in reply to 2368.9
Date: 10/25/2007 8:05:47 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
What I didn't mention was that this was part of an idea for integrating bot-cleanup into the playoff system, and it would work a little better if bots weren't becoming owned teams during the playoffs, but rather simply to leave them as bots, then moving them down to the bottom division, and then letting new owners replace them after the relegation is finished.

As an alternative, is it possible to start new teams out with a 0-0 record, and only place new teams into each league once per season (assuming that you don't run out of space). These teams would simply play a fragment of the schedule and then go into the playoffs.

So in the USA, you start out refilling the low-numbered series in IV, which should happen pretty quick, and then just keep going on into the higher numbered leagues in IV, and then on to V. If you did get to V.256, then you could restart.