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Top 10 NBA Players. Not Top 10 NBA Players over the last 5 Year, last 10 years, last 15 years.

We are discussing now. So you can't really take more than 1-2 seasons into account, last season... the season before, and perhaps as deep as 3 seasons ago. Anything further back than that isn't relevant to Top 10 NBA Players NOW.

If talking all time you have to look at guys like Oscar Robertson. Jordan doesn't hold a torch to those Triple Doubles... Jordan actually only had like 52 Double Doubles. Mike is still the greatest because of how he did it and how he took over games, especially play off and finals. So I do think MJ is the best ever (Oscar would be 2 for me, Wilt be the 3rd) Wilt can talk about scoring every bit that Jordan can. And I think that Jordan is MUCH better than Kobe, so obviously I would have to consider Oscar and Wilt better than Kobe as well.

Looking over the last 2-3 seasons, I can see plenty of players that mean what Kobe means to the Lakers. Not last year but 2 and 3 ago, Lebron meant that to the Cavs. Durant means that. Take Dirk away from the Mavs, do they even make the Play Offs, much less win it all? CP3 probably means as much to his team as Kobe does to the Lakers.

The reason I drop Lebron so much is that he went to a much better team and still didn't win, against a team with many less stars to stop. I do down grade Wade a bit, because he allowed James to cost him another championship. Still, Wade gets the benefit of the doubt, as he has won it all before with a less than star studded team.

I do keep Kobe up there, but these last two seasons he hasn't been exactly the same Kobe. To the degree that at this moment (last season) he's not the best NBA Player. All time, he's truly great. 3-5 years ago, top in the game. Right now, he's not #1. All time, he's not #1. But there were solid seasons put together where none was better in the league. Much respect for Kobe, but you have to understand this is about NOW.

Give me one person rite now in the nba who is better than my boi kobe, tell me y and i'll leave it alone. tell me if u can.

Just about every other player mentioned on other peoples lists. Scoring 100 Points on 180 shots does not make you the best player in the league. Still doesent pass or board. Has a Sick team around him making him look good. Plays Pretty average D. Best Shooter in the league? Maby. Best Player? Not a chance.

Dirk for his Career. 23.0 PPG. 1 BPG (Blocks). 0.9 SPG (Steals). 2.7 APG (Assists). 8.4 RPG. 1.2 ORPG. 87.7% FT. .381 3PT% 47.6 FG%.

Dirk in 10-11. 23.0 PPG. 0.6 BPG, 0.5 SPG. 2.6 APG, 7.0 RPG 0.7 ORPG, 89.2 FT%, 39.3% 3PT%, 51.7 FG%.

Play Offs:
First Round: 27.3 PPG, 0.5 BPG/SPG, 3 APG, 7.8 RPG, 88.9 FT%, 44.4 3PT%, 45.2 FG%
Semis: 25.3 PPG, 0.5 BBP 0.8 SPG, 2.5 APG, 9.3 RPG, 93.8 FT%, 72.7 3PT%, 57.4 FG%
Conf Finals: 32.2 PPG, 0.8 BBP, 0.4 SPG, 2.6 APG, 5.8 RPG, 96.7 FT%, 36.4 3PT%, 55.7 FG%
Finals: 26.0 PPG, 0.7 BPG, 0.7 SPG, 2.0 APG, 9.7 RPG, 94.1 FT%, 46.0 3PT%, 41.6 FG%

Play Offs: 27.7 PPG, 0.6 BPG/SPG, 2.5 APG, 8.1 RPG, 94.1 FT%, 46.0 3PT%, 48.5 FG%.

For only having one real good year, it seems Regular Season that he was below his Career Averages. Interesting, guess he's been putting up good numbers for more than just last year then? Also, look at those Percentages. 89% FT Career. 38% 3PT Career. 47% FG Career.

Then look at those Play Off numbers. Didn't go under 25 PPG in any seris. Two different Series with 9 RBG. And the fact that for a 'bad defender' he gets both Steals and Blocks at over 0.5 a game. His Assists are also nice for a 20+ PPG Player, staying at that 2-2.5 APG mark.

But lets look at the LAST 3 GAMES, you know, what knocked Miami out of the Championship.
He went 21-22 in the last 3 Games from the Free Throw Line. That means he was drawing fouls AND making them count. He shot 9 of 27 (33%) from the field in the final game... still managed 11 Rebounds and 21 Points IN THE WIN. He scored 21, 29 and 21. Though shooting 6 of 19 (just under 33%) still managed 21 Points and 11 Rebounds in the his worst shooting performance in the Finals... and took the Game Winner to the paint to score. Not bad for a soft jump shooter.

There has only been one season that he's played 35+ Minutes per Game and DIDN'T average 20+ PPG, that being his 2nd season where he managed to score 17.5 PPG. 3 Seasons over 90% FT. 3 Seasons over 40% 3PT. 12/13 Seasons over 44% FG, 2 of those over 50%.

Time for people to wake up. Dirk has game, and has had game for some time now. 23.0 PPG and 8.4 RPG for his CAREER.

Kobe and Dirk, Play Offs 2010-2011 Season.

Kobe Dirk
PPG 22.8 27.7
RPG 3.4 8.1
APG 3.3 2.5
SPG 1.6 0.6
BPG 0.3 0.6
FG% 44.6 48.5
3PT 29.3 46.0
FT% 82.0 94.1

So let's see. Kobe got 0.8 more APG. Kobe got 1.0 more SPG.

Dirk got 4.9 more PPG. 4.7 more RPG. 0.3 more BPG. Shot 3.9% better from the field, 16.7% better from 3PT, and 12.1% better from the FT Line.

And Dirk moved on to play tougher teams. Oh yeah... and that Conference Semi Finals... he beat Kobe and the Lakers.

So what's the argument for Kobe over Dirk this last season?

Though people constantly mention Kobe's five rings against the other stars in the league. He really was only the key player for the last 2 laker championships. Shaq was by far the star for the first three. Just look at his playoff stats from 2000-2002. He picked up his game like crazy in the finals. Against the pacers he averaged 38 points and 16.7 rebounds! Imagaine his scoring if he could hit his freethrows. Though Kobe the closing shots in game 4 of the 2000 finals, he only had to because shaq fouled out. If he was still in the game all of those shots would have been dunks. In fact Kobe only shot 36% and averaged 15 points for that series. In 2001 Shaq went up against Dikembe Mutumbo... one of the best post defenders ever. He won DPOY four times when he had to compete with Alonzo Mourning (before his surgery he was on track for the hall of fame), Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan and an aged but still tough David Robinson in addition to the much bigger front courts of the time. Shaq still averaged 33 points and 15.8 rebs and 3.4 blocks. Kobe scored 24.6 ppg on 41.5 fg%. Oh... and Shaq almost had a quadruple double in game 2. When Shaq came back in 2002 he once again averaged 36.3 points and 12.3 rebounds. In all three finals Shaq was unstoppable and even dominated great defenders.

While Kobe did go up against a strong pacers defense in 2000, he didn't have to play against an outside defender near the level of Dikembe's post defense. Putting someone like Gary Payton (in his prime) in Kobe would have shown just how much more dominant Shaq was. So Kobe really is a 2 time Champ, the other three are Shaq's. Even with hack a shaq to bail the defenders out and shaq's freethrow shooting he still dominated great post defenders. I am often mystified at how some ballhog Gs get so overrated by the media. Iverson is beyond overrated, in the 2001 finals he was primarily defended by Tyronn Lue... an unknown journeyman and Shaq was up against Dikemembe. Despite AI's game one scoring, shaq still put up better stats through the series against an incredible defender. Somehow Gs like Iverson and Kobe get all the hype. Putting Kobe in the top ten all time is even difficult with players like Duncan, Russell, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Moses Malone, Hakeem, Wilt and MJ23... the list could go on. If you do any all time list Kobe would have to be below Shaq and Duncan who have made their mark during his prime years, which would probably knock him out of the top 10 as it would be hard to even place Duncan or Shaq in the top 5

Last edited by Vixen at 11/15/2011 9:26:06 AM

u noe im not even gonna argue dirk n e more. but u must have some gang green or autism if u even think, or mention that wade, dirk, and rose wil ever reach the level kobe has shown us through his carrer. He has impacted the game and defense as long as the game will continue. even at his age he still puts up 25+ pts a game on average. rose isn't. i promise you that kobe bryant means more to his team and has a larger role than n e one else in nba history except for MJ23. He is the best player now, 2nd best all time and it won't change until he retires. If u can plz tell me y n e of dose ppl u named are better than kobe plz push urself 2 write it. Nobody is touching kb24 rite now, and earlier not after the lockout not ever. so chew on dat youngin. obviouslly u know nothing about basketball.

It would be a hell of a lot easier for me to take your opinions seriously if you could type in English.

u noe im not even gonna argue dirk n e more. but u must have some gang green or autism if u even think, or mention that wade, dirk, and rose wil ever reach the level kobe has shown us through his carrer. He has impacted the game and defense as long as the game will continue. even at his age he still puts up 25+ pts a game on average. rose isn't. i promise you that kobe bryant means more to his team and has a larger role than n e one else in nba history except for MJ23. He is the best player now, 2nd best all time and it won't change until he retires. If u can plz tell me y n e of dose ppl u named are better than kobe plz push urself 2 write it. Nobody is touching kb24 rite now, and earlier not after the lockout not ever. so chew on dat youngin. obviouslly u know nothing about basketball.

Obviously YOU know nothing about basketball. If we are talking about Statistics. Kevind Durant is the best right now he's averaged 27+ and 30+ in two seasons.

2 things 2 say about kobe.

1. 2 all da kobe haterz out dere lemme tell u now 2 git of his case with dis shaq bull. when u have one the most dominant players in nba history on ur team, y should u b expected 2 average monster #'s if someone else is doing that. when shaq left kobe steps up 2 25+ pts a game one time averging evn 35.4 pts which is 3rd highedt average ever by a player.

2. i'll give u da top 10 of all time so u wont be lost
1.mj
2.kobe bryant
3.magic johnson
4.larry bird
5. shaq
6. oscar robertson
7. wilt
8. bill russel
10. kareem
and no not in order thnk u

David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajowun.

Like I said (and you side stepped nicely, by the way) Kobe vs. Dirk 2011, where was Kobe a better player? Dirk had better stats almost across the board, Dirk swept Kobe, Dirk won the Championship against a loaded Heat. In no single way whatsoever was Kobe better than Dirk 2011.

You asked me how Dirk was better in 2011, I showed you. You haven't really shown any basketball intelligence, other than not having Scottie Pippen in your Top 10 All Time (for which I would have burnt you harshly).

And to claim that I don't know basketball because I'm in a V League in my first full season (took over the last place team with 1 game before Relegation last season) is true ignorance. You must be very blissful.

This thread will never die with that level of intelligence....it's a pissing contest now. Who can win the title of the village idiot????