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So, question is this... how do we ensure, if game isn't being organized/played (and please note there isn't any way for any one of us to verify that, as these games do not show up on team schedule for others than teams involved in PU match) that:
A) Team has actually sent an invitation to PU match
B) Team responsible for accepting the invitation has actually accepted it.

I don't want to be negative, but this is one of the few problems running a PU system will need to be addressed.

The answer to your question, Wagner, is simple: we are reliant on managers doing what needs to be done. As for sharing...a screen shot is not ideal (as you noted) but one possibility. Another is that Managers check-in to the thread (the new one that you will need to create for the new league) and make it known that the game was/or was not played.

If it was not played, then what will happen next? Bbmail the manager who didn't do their job? Re-schedule it? These are some of the issues that will likely have to be dealt with on the run. Hopefully, not too many of these issues occur.

Indeed it's something we need to figure out, if possible. If we can't come up with clear and easy solution (which I hope we eventually will), then we need to think of ways how we could live with it (I've tried to consider both approaches recently). It is realistic to take a look at the challenge from eye to eye, I don't see this as you trying to put down the project.

Please other managers share your thoughts if you have some of those "light bulb moments", and can figure out a surefire way to handle this (what I mentioned in my message that has been quoted on the top, with A) and B)). I mean sometimes when you try to overthink, or think one thing over and over again, you might not see the obvious solution.
But as MrJ said he also doesn't see an easy solution for this seemingly obvious challenge, I guess we need to be giving this a further thought. For the couple of days I've spent some time creating some draft of rules and penalties, and will likely share some of it quite soon. The draft version right now is exactly that, so I don't prefer to throw it out to the forum just yet. It also needs some tuning and certain changes, and later on likely also small additions - and also like I mentioned, when rules are being created, it's essential what we can verify and what we can't (and therefore what we can penalize and what we can't, and if we can't, how do we handle problematic scenarios so that it's fair as possible to both teams mainly involved, and ultimately to all teams, etc. etc.

So with the risk of repetition, why I threw an open question to all managers to the forum is because in order to be able to create certain rules, it would be absolutely essential for me to know an answer to the A)/B)-question above... because if we can´t veriry it, I need to go back to drawing board big time (but things will get ready soon enough, do not worry about it - we still have weeks before the season starts). I will likely throw some ideas back and forth about that partially ready draft with MrJ by BBMail (if that's fine for you?) and see what we can come up with.

But all fellow managers, please, if you can also think it over/figure out any challenge whatsoever that we could face when we play this league as a pickup game (PU) league, I'd appreciate it if you can share it here on the forum or by BBMail as it will tremendously help in preparation work for the league. There will be certain hiccups with new project no matter how well you try to plan and prepare, but I'd like to make it as smooth ride as possible by being prepared to most likely problematic scenarios.

So, question is this... how do we ensure, if game isn't being organized/played (and please note there isn't any way for any one of us to verify that, as these games do not show up on team schedule for others than teams involved in PU match) that:
A) Team has actually sent an invitation to PU match
B) Team responsible for accepting the invitation has actually accepted it.

I don't want to be negative, but this is one of the few problems running a PU system will need to be addressed.


The answer to your question, Wagner, is simple: we are reliant on managers doing what needs to be done.

I have thought about this quite some time, and surely will keep myself busy with it in the future as well wondering how to best utilize pickup (PU) game system with least complications possible.
To make this message about PU based league possibly more easily understandable, I'd like to share the challenges with PU based league with two categories:
1. Organizing regular season matches (my idea/proposition to solve problem with this at least partly is found below)
2. Organizing playoff matches

As people who have followed this conversation might remember, I originally proposed that we would play mostly one match per week, and playoffs with a pace of 2 matches per week.

However, after giving it more thorough thought, I think in this scenario the greatest bottleneck/risk (of managers not organizing matches in timely manner) would be at the most critical time of the season, playoffs. Having said that, dividing "PU match challenge sending windows" into two different parts/windows in order to be able to organize all regular season matches is definitely not ideal either - that I'll try to solve later in this message.

So to remedy that I instead proposed a while ago that I think we should play 2 games per week, for as long as it's necessary in order to be able to play only 1 regular season match per week and most importantly, only 1 playoff round per week (in an attempt to verify everything goes as planned, and managers won't miss deadlines with invitations and acceptance of PU games).

So having thought this quite a lot, I just had two ideas in mind which could provide partial solution to this. They might not be best or even good solutions, but I'll throw them out so that you guys can at least comment something about it. The last one likely being slightly harder to implement (as we´d need to convince owners/staff), and first one would change our previous plans (weekly timetable) a bit.

I remind all, that currently PU games can be agreed/organized only 2 months ahead from the current day.

However, here they come:

1. As PU games can be organized only 2 months ahead, that means (unless I'm mistaken) that with the current plans, mainly 1 match per week schedule, it could be very or quite hard if not impossible to organize all regular season matches in one go.

While during playoffs it is required for teams to send a new challenge every week (if they keep on winning), regular season has the greatest potential to cause the greatest amount of problems in terms of unsent challenges, unplayed matches etc. and therefore cause more hassle and possibly penalties to teams.

So first proposition would be, that we could play 2 matches per week in regular season, and one match per week in playoffs. This way we would be able to organize all regular season matches in one go, which would make it impossible for teams to miss organizing games, as long as they are honest when confirming on forum or by a BBMail to Commissioner prior to season tip-off that all regular season matches are organized properly.

2. We could try to convince (new) owners (and/or staff?) of Buzzerbeater to extend the possibility to send challenges to PU games until at least to 3 (but preferably 4, as season lasts 98 days?) months, so we could play mostly 1 match per week and organize all regular season matches at once.

Hey All,

Sorry it has been a hot minute, The Buckner Bandits are still 100% homegrown and good for any league yall decide!! :-) Thank you all for setting this up! Gonna be fun!!

Cheers mate, and welcome back! Sorry for ignoring your message earlier - and same for other managers as well to whom I haven't replied on this forum recently - it's been pretty busy on this end too, as the first season of homegrown league is closing in and there are still some things left to be finalized and decided!

It's great to hear other managers are also getting excited/joy out of this league - I'm pretty excited myself (which surely must be an undestatement of the year!) it is definitely going to be lots of fun! In fact for me it's the best thing ever in Buzzerbeater as I couldn't imagine anything more motivating than being and remaining homegrown...

Being able to play with all you fellow managers in a same league, is a Buzzerbeater dream come true for me, so thank you all homegrown managers already beforehand! Lets keep this, and the new forum (that will be established for the BBHG/homegrown league as we get everything/most things concerning the new league finalized) active in the future as well! :)

1. As PU games can be organized only 2 months ahead, that means (unless I'm mistaken) that with the current plans, mainly 1 match per week schedule, it could be very or quite hard if not impossible to organize all regular season matches in one go.

While during playoffs it is required for teams to send a new challenge every week (if they keep on winning), regular season has the greatest potential to cause the greatest amount of problems in terms of unsent challenges, unplayed matches etc. and therefore cause more hassle and possibly penalties to teams.

So first proposition would be, that we could play 2 matches per week in regular season, and one match per week in playoffs. This way we would be able to organize all regular season matches in one go, which would make it impossible for teams to miss organizing games, as long as they are honest when confirming on forum or by a BBMail to Commissioner prior to season tip-off that all regular season matches are organized properly.

2. We could try to convince (new) owners (and/or staff?) of Buzzerbeater to extend the possibility to send challenges to PU games until at least to 3 (but preferably 4, as season lasts 98 days?) months, so we could play mostly 1 match per week and organize all regular season matches at once.

I think option 1 is best. Option 2 is relying on BB helping us. It is probably too late in the season to have any hope of that. However, it is something that could be asked for the following season.

So, option 1: Play 2 matches per week for regular season - set them up at the beginning of the season.

Brilliant suggestion

So, option 1: Play 2 matches per week for regular season - set them up at the beginning of the season.

I agree.

Hey All,

Sorry it has been a hot minute, The Buckner Bandits are still 100% homegrown and good for any league yall decide!! :-) Thank you all for setting this up! Gonna be fun!!

Cheers mate, and welcome back! Sorry for ignoring your message earlier - and same for other managers as well to whom I haven't replied on this forum recently - it's been pretty busy on this end too, as the first season of homegrown league is closing in and there are still some things left to be finalized and decided!

It's great to hear other managers are also getting excited/joy out of this league - I'm pretty excited myself (which surely must be an undestatement of the year!) it is definitely going to be lots of fun! In fact for me it's the best thing ever in Buzzerbeater as I couldn't imagine anything more motivating than being and remaining homegrown...

Being able to play with all you fellow managers in a same league, is a Buzzerbeater dream come true for me, so thank you all homegrown managers already beforehand! Lets keep this, and the new forum (that will be established for the BBHG/homegrown league as we get everything/most things concerning the new league finalized) active in the future as well!

Thanks, this is going to be fun, no matter how we get it going, will just be a fun group to play Home Grown against. I was planning on taking one more year and to save money and just develop my guards but I "accidentaly" clicked on some draft players and was able to see some great Center prospects , 2 5*/5* so that may have altered next year for me. Will still be homegrown, but instead of doing final year of outside training, we may start training our bigs depending on who I get.

Will be a good time no matter what! :-)

Thanks, this is going to be fun, no matter how we get it going, will just be a fun group to play Home Grown against. I was planning on taking one more year and to save money and just develop my guards but I "accidentaly" clicked on some draft players and was able to see some great Center prospects , 2 5*/5* so that may have altered next year for me. Will still be homegrown, but instead of doing final year of outside training, we may start training our bigs depending on who I get.

Will be a good time no matter what! :-)

Exciting find, T-Lit. I'm still only finding 4/5 draftees at this point. Hopefully I will still find a 5/5 or two. I'm looking at training inside skills next season. Just trying to get my SF (Steggall) one more OD pop this season so I can hammer his big skills before he caps.

OF course, becoming 100% HG very soon is the exciting challenge for me :-)

Last edited by MrJ at 2/28/2025 3:09:46 AM

Yes, totally relying on it would be risky - at least another plan as a backup plan must be kept in my opinion too.

However, that might be more ideal in the further seasons if we could stretch the regular season bit further, but in here I also have "selfish reasons", as I suppose editing/updating league table will keep (probably myself, if people would want to see me taking a Commissioner role for the first season) more attached to Buzzerbeater than playing mostly 1 week per game would, and on lot more structured manner than nowadays. But on the other hand, that was expected result of establishing such league (and keeping it running) anyway, just in more pronounced manner than what 1 game per week would produce/cause.

So I'm glad you guys see that as a working solution, so at least for the fist season, unless we can come up with another workable/better solution, maybe that's the bullet I need to take for the team (and we can try to approach BB devs/owners and/or staff in the future and try to convince them about the benefits of expanding the time window of sending PU game challenges).

@Wagner. While I do not agree with too many rules and regulations for managers, as I believe this might cause managers to be unwilling to compete in the first place, I do acknowledge your commitment to this HG League and setting up in a manner you believe correct.

Hello all,
I've been working on my suggestions in terms of rules and penalties. I hope following messages will create conversation as we don't have too much time to waste.

I've been working mostly on this penalties/rules section on the league for two reasons: in order to ensure it would be ready in time, as it's one of the most critical aspects, and most other aspects of the league have been presented with a workable option already.
Yes, MrJ also provided his view on penalties, which I in many parts agree. However, I'd prefer a bit more strict and prepared approach in order to ensure things go as smoothly as possible as consequences in some cases have the funny and pleasant effect to make people act for the good of the league and all it's managers even if they wouldn't always feel like it.

Secondly, as I've understood, most aspects of league (like league system) have been accepted by managers and all participating managers know how league will approximately run, so this information can be written later.

What I'm about to send here is a brief compilation (with possibly some faults, but at least with some exclusions that can be found from full set of rules) of suggested rules and occurrences leading to penalties.

I hope, and would like to assume that we won't be needing these penalties, but on the other hand I see it as a positive that certain rules exist, so that if we're going to have to enforce some penalties people have been let known beforehand of consequences.

Please all let me know what you think of following penalty structure, severity, etc.. And as there are 14(?) of us currently participating, I hope as many of us as possbile would comment on these posts. If, say, 2-3 will comment, it's hardly a conversation.

If you accept it (at some level), you can let me know here in the forum or by BBMail.

If you don't like some parts of it, let me know. But please, if you don't like it, would you let me know for instance:
A) why you don't like it,
B) what in it you don't like,
C) what penalties would you change/not use, and
D) why would you want to change some aspects of my proposition, what are the benefits of your proposition over mine?

You may also comment something without elaborating, but opening your thinking patterns would prove to be very useful in getting an idea what people don't like and do like.

If I get the feedback here, that we could proceed with a plan that's along the lines what I've suggested here, then I could perhaps post rest of the rules, exceptions, etc. to the forum to see what you all think and what would possibly need to be changed.

There are also some problematic considerations on some of these rules that we may have to address before deciding if we should apply such rule and it's penalty or not, or change violations' severity, etc., and I might share some of those problematic aspects with you soon.

As for main points on next messages what I wouldn't want to negotiate on (and what therefore partly differentiates this proposition from MrJ's proposition of penalties), as it "attacks" the idea of being HG team severely, is at least this:

***Becoming non-homegrown team in the middle of the season is something we do not want to encourage, and that needs to be penalized immediately and severely (out for current and following season) without issuing warning first.***

Let's face it: teams do not just "accidentally" become non-homegrown, and if they (decide to) do so, it's unlikely they would like to join the league for the next year anyway. (Only 1 exception for that rule). It's actually very easy rule to understand and therefore remember and stick with, as it is so clear.

Brief compilation of different levels of penalties (more thorough explanations and exceptions found from full rules, and certain details yet to be decided.):

Level 1: Lowest level (warning and?) penalty system, including (possibly first warning without sanctions?) yellow and red cards that remain with the team for the remainder of the season (exclusions could apply on some cases if violation is being made during playoffs to ensure penalty efficiency - still to be decided).
Only warnings as level 1 penalties might not be effective enough (and failing to organize matches during most important time of season, playoffs, would produce only a warning if no previous warnings would've been issued), especially as organizing all regular season matches at once mostly eliminates the risk of regular season matches not being organized properly.

I suggest replacing "warning only"-first stage penalty level with a Yellow card and Red card-system (still Level 1 penalties though), which has some similarities in cards being dealt to players in soccer (further explanation will be found from more thorough explanation of rules; not included here).
Yellow card would produce no direct consequences in terms of results, forfeits etc., but serves as a last warning (as well as first warning, if we don't use warning before giving team a card).
Red card, however, would produce 0-50 forfeit for the team being penalized.
Acquiring many enough (2 in this suggestion, yellow and red) cards during the season would cause Level 2 penalty for the team for each violation for the rest of the season; see below.

Level 2: 0-50 forfeit loss for the match in question. Some exceptions apply, for instance if team already has reached a red card penalty level during that season (more thorough explanation available in full description of rules and penalties).

Level 3: 0-50 forfeit loss for the match in question, and ineligibility for the current season playoff play no matter how good the team regular season success is.

Level 4: Immediate disqualification from the current season, including playoffs; match in where violation occurred, and all the future scores for the current season will become 0-50 forfeit losses.

Level 5: Immediate disqualification from the current and for the full forthcoming season; match in where violation occurred, and all the future scores for the current season will become 0-50 forfeit losses.

Level 6:Death penalty (term being used by NCAA for certain severe violations): Immediate disqualification from the current and for the full next season, and in addition being in probation for the next full season after that (should they wish to participate in BBHG league in that season). All the future scores from the current season, and result of match in where violation occurred will become 0-50 forfeit losses.

Being in probation for the whole season means (in this homegrown league) that if team commits recurring violations that cause level 5 or 6 penalties (becoming non-homegrown by either just buying, or buying and playing ineligible players in any BBHG league match), they will be penalized more harshly and will receive current plus 2 full seasons ban from the moment the violation has occurred.

*
INSTEAD OF PROBATION ON LEVEL 6 (AND/OR POSSIBLE OTHER LEVELS, IF PENALTY SYSTEM CHANGED), WE COULD USE:
A) for the start of the 3rd penalized season (which is season spent in probation) team receives 3 red cards, so it starts league with 3 forfeits and with a red card, which means every yellow card warning that season would automatically cause another forfeit (as team has already reached a red card penalty level for that season)
B) consider using current+2 full seasons ban, as I originally proposed
C) same level penalties than on Level 5 (so playing non-homegrown players in a homegrown league match would not produce higher penalties than just becoming non-homegrown team).