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I like what Darthmaul offered. The "half empty" guy in me says that the more complicated you make it the harder it will be for new players to join and stay with the game. so the simplicity of how the draft is now is somewhat appealing to a new user, such as myself.
However. with that in mind, perhaps a comprimise?? For Div IV and below keep the draft as it is now. for Div III and higher have a more "realistic" draft with some of the 'advanced ideas' being suggested.

as to one of DarthMaul's suggestions

3) Instead of age, give a generic identifier such as "underclassmen" or "senior". This will give you a clue as to the players age without actually giving it away.

this could also add an interesting twist to the draft. Perhaps 10-15% of the underclassmen decide to 'stay in college' and even though you draft them you do not 'sign them'. So a GM then would need to decide whether to take a 5 Star 'underclassmen' who might not sign, or a 3-4 star senior who most certainly will.

Okay, I was really hoping the GM's / BB's take that I just sit back and see how the draft turns out would show me I had been jumping to conclusions about the whole scouting process. Unfortunately, i was wrong. Here is a prime example of what I was trying to avoid:

I am training inside guys, and so had adjusted my draft order to take this into accnt.

My #1 guy which before the draft I only knew had respectable inside shot, well, I ended up getting him! Yea!

He came out with a nice complement of inside skills:

AVERAGE REB
AVERAGE IDef
MEDIOCRE BLK

to go with his Respectable Inside Shot. I was pumped! BB lists his best position as Center. There's just one catch.........

HE IS ONLY 6 Feet , 1 inch tall (185 cm)

Now I am going to assume that since he will be shorter than most other centers in the game by at least 7 inches, the BB game engine will make him a subpar inside player. If this is not case, please let me know. I already know that he is at a disadvantage in rebounding training due to his height.

Please please please BB's. I'm begging you. Please fix the draft scouting process so we can at least know how tall every prospect is. At least the ones we've scouted. There are ways to make this info not shareable and to prevent collusion as listed earlier in the thread. Who among us would have knowingly gone after a 6 ft center? Not a one.

The argument of "well put your draftee's up for sale and buy the one who wished you got" holds no water. Who want's a 6' 1" center? Raise your hand, and I'll sell him to you


Edited by DarthMaul (10/22/2007 10:41:50 PM CET)

Last edited by Darth Maul at 10/22/2007 10:41:50 PM

Height only affects training.

It does not affect how a player plays.

Darth,
The BB's have always indicated that "best position" for a player isn't necessarily that. Obviously, at 6'1", your guy is not center....he's a PG with Center skills......
he should dominate the other PG's in the lowpost!!!

I do see your point about more info, but I will reiterate that a guys listed position is sometimes not the one he is ideally suited to play.......just an FYI.

If playing a 6'1" person at center doesn't affect a game's outcome then there is more wrong with this game then just the draft system.

A 6'1" person will not train at center nearly as well as one of their taller brethren.

The skills that they have, though, still translate, and that's the way it should be.

The idea is that a taller player will find it much easier to develop their rebounding skills, for example.

This game is very young, and players are not even close to being as good as they can be, and taking a new draftee and comparing him to the best players available is poor judgment at best.

Ok as far as I remember the Game Engine does not take into account height.

However the training system does. So he will train slower than a taller player.

I would suggest a way to fix this for future is to show whether a player is above or below 6'5"

He really is not a bad player and can be sold for quite a bit. Being young you can still train him effectively. We do not know how much height affects the training yet so try and find out.
Just remember he will have no disadvantage in the game. The skills represent the ability of the player to play the position that the skill is suited to. So if the player has respectable Inside Shot he has the same capability as another player with the same skill level.

I'm not sure who was comparing new draftees to established players. That seems tangential to the conversation.

The point that Darth and I were making before the draft and now is this:

I want to train inside guys(hypothetically) as a long term strategy. Everything about this game lets me do that except for one. That one thing happens to be a vital part of any long term strategy. To not be able to control the new players that are being introduced to your team to even the small extent of height and/or position is ridiculous. It almost entirely removes the viability of long term planning. Why should it? Why can't it be something that is useful to our team instead of a source of frustration.

Let me draft tall people and get crap. I can live with that. But if I try to draft tall people and get 6'1" inside players... That I have a problem with.

Ok as far as I remember the Game Engine does not take into account height.

However the training system does. So he will train slower than a taller player.

I would suggest a way to fix this for future is to show whether a player is above or below 6'5"

He really is not a bad player and can be sold for quite a bit. Being young you can still train him effectively. We do not know how much height affects the training yet so try and find out.
Just remember he will have no disadvantage in the game. The skills represent the ability of the player to play the position that the skill is suited to. So if the player has respectable Inside Shot he has the same capability as another player with the same skill level.

So let me get this straight. If I have a 6' player with respectable inside shooting he will have the same ability to score low post on a 7' opponent as a 7' player with respectable inside shooting? That seems unintuitive.

I realize BB's best position isn't necessarily that. But based on my parameters, and my thinking of what each skill should contribute, he fits my bill as a center or power forward.


His other skills don't lend to being a guard. He is low outer def, driving, handling ,etc. He's a natural center or power forward. As it is I am going to play him as a SF, since I'm making my SF more inside focused, but to get more concentrated training, I'm going to play him in my scrimmages as a center.

Batman raises a good point - does height really play NO part in the game engine other than training?

Edited by DarthMaul (10/22/2007 11:22:24 PM CET)

Last edited by Darth Maul at 10/22/2007 11:22:25 PM

I'm not sure who was comparing new draftees to established players. That seems tangential to the conversation.

The point that Darth and I were making before the draft and now is this:

I want to train inside guys(hypothetically) as a long term strategy. Everything about this game lets me do that except for one. That one thing happens to be a vital part of any long term strategy. To not be able to control the new players that are being introduced to your team to even the small extent of height and/or position is ridiculous. It almost entirely removes the viability of long term planning. Why should it? Why can't it be something that is useful to our team instead of a source of frustration.

Let me draft tall people and get crap. I can live with that. But if I try to draft tall people and get 6'1" inside players... That I have a problem with.

I'm not sure who was comparing new draftees to established players. That seems tangential to the conversation.

The point that Darth and I were making before the draft and now is this:

I want to train inside guys(hypothetically) as a long term strategy. Everything about this game lets me do that except for one. That one thing happens to be a vital part of any long term strategy. To not be able to control the new players that are being introduced to your team to even the small extent of height and/or position is ridiculous. It almost entirely removes the viability of long term planning. Why should it? Why can't it be something that is useful to our team instead of a source of frustration.

Let me draft tall people and get crap. I can live with that. But if I try to draft tall people and get 6'1" inside players... That I have a problem with.

My response basically dealt with this:

So let me get this straight. If I have a 6' player with respectable inside shooting he will have the same ability to score low post on a 7' opponent as a 7' player with respectable inside shooting? That seems unintuitive.

The idea is that the shorter player is really a better inside scorer, but cannot take full advantage of his skills due to his height.

We want the actual skill level of the player to be the determining factor on how good the player is.