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There are some ideas being floated around in here that will get lost, so if you have a different suggestion, post it in the Suggestions forum. This includes Utopias, colleges, women's leagues, etc. None of those will be happening if this change is implemented, so there's no need to mention your support of them in this thread. They are irrelevant distractions.

I keep hearing all these fears of rampant unchecked cheating. I honestly think this change would reduce cheating because BB would have mechanisms to prevent using the two teams in any combination effort.

But I am actually curious what exact cheating people think is going on now and how this proposal will add/subtract from it. Because other than occasionally seeing a team overpay for another team's players (which I have reported and seen both teams frozen shortly thereafter), I can't really envision what these fears are all about.

Stop with the college youth team idea. You have mentioned it numerous times. That would be a pretty massive undertaking and it does nothing to help micro nations. Throw it in the suggestions forum but it has nothing to do with anything in this thread.

Ok I'm sorry- I was sharing my opinion on what I thought would work best for a 2nd team- but I guess ill keep my mouth shut.

Nice apology. Thanks for trying to input (and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way towards you).

I think the biggest obstacle I'm seeing against the "second team in a new country" idea is cheating, so let's bring up as many different ways that people could cheat as possible and let BB staff disprove that it's going to affect the already great game that BB is.

1. Ruining the drafting process by deliberately coming last, taking the good players and hindering their growth.

2. Switching players between several managers between teams.

3. Easier to make/manage farm teams (my country does it for your country and yours does it for mine).

(edit: there are likely more but this is all I could think of in a short time)

Last edited by Axis123 at 1/14/2014 12:25:21 AM

I think the biggest obstacle I'm seeing against the "second team in a new country" idea is cheating, so let's bring up as many different ways that people could cheat as possible and let BB staff disprove that it's going to affect the already great game that BB is.

1. Ruining the drafting process by deliberately coming last, taking the good players and hindering their growth.

2. Switching players between several managers between teams.

3. Easier to make/manage farm teams (my country does it for your country and yours does it for mine).

(edit: there are likely more but this is all I could think of in a short time)

I have no expertise in these, but here are some thoughts I have in response to each:

1. Let's remember that second teams will almost all be in countries with limited activity, so these are not dominant nations on the world stage with almost complete certainty. Italy will not be planting owners in USA to do nothing but waste HOF talent by hoarding them, because there won't be any owners getting their second teams in USA. I think this is a red herring.

Further, if you pay for a second team in a small nation, you've got a decent chance to be pretty good. You'll still be competing against some bots, most likely, but overall making the competition better somewhere. I cannot fathom why anyone would spend this money just to be a foreigner who deliberately takes a team just to make it suck.

Also, tanking is not cheating, as I understand it. I've seen teams deliberately finish last almost every season. They relegate, then they rebuild and return. It's part of the game.

2. This is already something hard to police, since by definition it involves a lot of owners. But other than trying to ruin game shape for NT-level players of other countries, it's not really anything but childish behavior. If an NT player's being sold repeatedly, those nation's managers will notice and report problems. If people are doing this with other guys, then who exactly are they hurting? I could care less if people want to keep transferring players and wasting their money, as long as they aren't deliberately overpaying.

3. I think this is also a red herring for the same reasons as No. 1. These secondary teams will not be in big nations. And anyone who wants to take a team that's currently a bot and develop the talent there for whatever reason should be welcomed, I'd imagine. Those native players can only be useful to the NT/U21 managers of that country, right? What other concern is there here?

Further, if you pay for a second team in a small nation, you've got a decent chance to be pretty good. You'll still be competing against some bots, most likely, but overall making the competition better somewhere. I cannot fathom why anyone would spend this money just to be a foreigner who deliberately takes a team just to make it suck.

Nice approach! +1
Still there're few points cons. At least one I've got: engaging second team in small nations league just to feel yourself winner against the bots... it's also somehow childish, as you said. For instance, I've fallen to IV league Russia during team reconstruction, and my only desire is to bounce back. Because playing against the bots is obviously boring. Thanks to PL and National Cup...
Anyway, 60 to 40 for "yes" means some people at least want to try it

There are some ideas being floated around in here that will get lost, so if you have a different suggestion, post it in the Suggestions forum. This includes Utopias, colleges, women's leagues, etc. None of those will be happening if this change is implemented, so there's no need to mention your support of them in this thread. They are irrelevant distractions.

To be fair, the "utopia" suggestion is very similar to the idea being proposed. Instead of choosing a country of your choice for your second team, you're forced into a "BB Nation." All 11 restrictions that Marin outlined in his first post still apply, all the "pros" he listed in his second post still apply, and I believe it solves some of the "cons" as well. It's definitely not different enough to not warrant discussion. In fact, Marin even said "It's a valid proposition and should be considered in the conclusion." in this post ((254079.205)). I will agree on the youth league suggestions being irrelevant.

I keep hearing all these fears of rampant unchecked cheating. I honestly think this change would reduce cheating because BB would have mechanisms to prevent using the two teams in any combination effort.

I can not see how creating a second team could ever reduce cheating from the current game. Not increase it, maybe, but definitely won't reduce it.

But I am actually curious what exact cheating people think is going on now and how this proposal will add/subtract from it. Because other than occasionally seeing a team overpay for another team's players (which I have reported and seen both teams frozen shortly thereafter), I can't really envision what these fears are all about.

There are two factors that contribute to this. First, acquiring a second team in a country of your choice means you might be able to get in to a D2 in a micronation with a few bots. Leagues with constant turnover and lots of bots are pretty easy to sit in and bank some cash. And secondly, even though you have all this cash, what is your incentive to use it? You can't get to the B3, and is winning a micronation league title going to be a huge incentive? For some, sure. For others, probably not. So now you've got all this cash, you can't train your own country's NT players, and you're more interested in your first team winning, or your country's NT winning, than this second team. Here's some of the things you're allowed to do:

None of these are "cheating" per se, but they certainly wouldn't be considered "fair play." And I don't see any plausible restrictions to prevent them.

1. Bid up the players your D3 league mates are bidding on with your second team. You've got all this cash and care more about your first team. Are they going to implement a restriction that if anyone from your DIII.9 ever bids on a guy your second team isn't allowed to buy him? That seems harsh and kind of allows a team to "call dibs" on a guy so you can't buy him.
2. Spend all the money buying up another country's best prospects and not training them. Are they going to implement a restriction that forces you to train players? A coordinated effort by 3 people raking cash in micronations can make a big dent in a national team.
3. Smaller national teams rely on players that won't sell for 1mil. Second teams can just buy up these guys from other countries and fire them. No on buys them for 1mil, and they're retired.

A "BB-Nation" solves all of these issues.