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Hello demars,
Thanks for your response. My problem is not in the Dutch competition. I know that I have to be patient with a homegrown team and that it will take many seasons to become strong enough for division II. I just don't see the fun in joining a homegrown tournament were I only loose by +50 points every game. It will take me 3 more seasons to get over 100k in teamsalary.
How many homegrown teams are there with under 100k teamsalary?

Last edited by Dutch Farmer at 8/2/2025 5:56:32 AM

I respect all the time and dedication you put in to this. You'r doing very good. Because I'm just in my second season my teamsalary is a low 58k and without any good player yet. I don't mind losing all my games, but losing all my games with 50+ point differential is no fun. What's your thought on that?

Thanks very much Dutch Farmer!
I understand that it wouldn't be enjoyable to lose games by 50+, and to be realistic I wouldn't want to set you wrong expectations. You could start by checking out this table for instance, especially those 3 categories under Scoring:, especially category "Scoring margin", here: (326590.9).
Those are Season 1 statistics, and shows you how for instance lowest salary teams Swan River Serpents ($55K) aka.SRS, Big Chillers ($59K) aka. BIG, and Buckner Bandits ($98K) aka. BUC have fared against HGL opponents.

Like you can see, SRS and BIG have lost on average by 53,7 and 49,1 points, respectively, so it´s not easy to acquire wins with such salaries. And again to be more on the realistic side, on HGL Season 2 there are less lower salary teams playing, so of course it means it´s harder for those lowest salary teams to get a win (because there are less opponents with almost equal salaries playing).

Also, if you want to check a league table from Season 1, you can see how lowest salary teams have fared against other HGL teams: (326590.4). Like you can see, it´s not easy in terms of wins. However, may I note that HCH (Holy City Hoopers) with $148K salaries were able to win 5 games out of 15 (33,3%) and did achieve a place in Playoffs, so you don´t always need to have team full of monsters to achieve some success that will be in HGL history books forever.

How many homegrown teams are there with under 100k teamsalary?

Here´s a listing of HGL Season 1 Top8-players salaries: (326589.52),
and for Season 2 of HGL, here: (327516.63).

So as you can see, there are less teams with lower salaries on Season 2 (compared to Season 1) which of course makes it harder for very low salary teams to acquire wins (or avoid terribly big losses).

But like demars well put it, it's a long term project. And at what time you should jump in (to HGL) is a good question... It depends on many things, including how you can handle those big losses that you´ll eventually face if joining already next season. If they ruin the HGL experience for you for good, then it might be better to wait for couple of seasons so that you'll be more competitive when you first join, as there´s always only one first impression of something, and that first impression is sometimes hard to wear out (especially if it's a negative one).

If, on the other hand, you enjoy being part of HGL community and can handle big losses from round to round mentally so to speak, we could see if we can expand HGL for next season if you decide it´d be worth joining ASAP.

Anyway, please let me know into which category you want to be in that list (preferred starting on Season 3, or "possibly in the future") when you have made your decision.

Thanks for your explanation. I appreciate that. You can change me on the list in possibly in the future. Good luck everyone!

Thanks for your explanation. I appreciate that. You can change me on the list in possibly in the future. Good luck everyone!

Thanks for your reply! I will do that.

Good luck with your HG project, and you are more than welcome to visit and write here on Official HGL Thread even if you aren't currently playing in HGL (and of course that applies to everyone else as well, as it's great to see conversation taking place and also see new managers activating on HGL Threads)!

At least for me social/community aspect of play in BB is important, and even more so within HGL community where we share the common nominator of being totally Home-Grown, and can share with each other the difficulties and triumphs of the challenging play style we have chosen.

Thanks! I will keep following this forum and related ones.

This discussion makes me think that it would be a good idea to create 2 separate divisions : a UPPER and a (I don't know how to say it without being disrespectfull :D )
By this mean, the weaker could hope for 1/3 of wins, and the best could not hope for more than 80% easily.

But, we should be more than 18...

Good idea!

If not bot in the meantime :p I think I'd like to play on season 3, thanks!

Hei Wagner, I would definitely join for season 3 as well

Hei Wagner, I would definitely join for season 3 as well

Thanks LennuK. and ned, I updated the list. 8 out of 16 current HGL teams have now confirmed their participation to Season 3 as well.

This discussion makes me think that it would be a good idea to create 2 separate divisions : a UPPER and a (I don't know how to say it without being disrespectfull :D )
By this mean, the weaker could hope for 1/3 of wins, and the best could not hope for more than 80% easily.
But, we should be more than 18...

While I understand this is something that may divide opinions to some degree, personally I think positives of having only one same level league where every HGL team plays against every other HGL team far outweighs the possible negatives of this current setup/practice.
It´s a long discussion (with many points already presented), which has been had before, actually multiple times before, also on Homegrown teams II-thread if my memory serves me).

Actually, when you look at top8-salaries of teams for Season 2, here (327516.63), we actually haven´t got quite as layered salary structure as on Season 1, especially what becomes to lowest ranked teams.
Basically we have HAD at 742K, followed by 4 teams within $90K of each other (525-435K).

Then teams ranked from 6th to 15th are within $106K of each other (342-236K).

Team ranked 16th on the other hand is way behind in salaries at $80K/week.

Also, worst teams always tend to struggle to find wins, or best team(s) in lower division, should there be a 2 division setup in use, would struggle to not to win, as they´re still strongest of the group. So while it would likely make worst teams lose a bit less (or possibly find an occassional win slightly more often), again there are many many negatives in having a 2 different level divisions, such as likely having to play multiple times with each other during one season, causing more administrative work, making wins, records and statistics uncomparable to each other, and so on.

And like you mentioned, it would also require more teams. With current intrerest levels (unless we´re able to awaken loads of more interest of participation), I´d find it better to think of different possibilities to add/replace teams to current setup if maximum limit within current league setup would be exceeded (which it currently hasn´t).

That could be small play-in type league/playoffs (during real HGL playoffs), into which only new-to-HGL teams, or also worst team(s) in HGL would participate, which would determine participation rights for the next season of HGL. The downside would be, that it would possibly cause some HGL teams to drop out due to not having successful teams enough, and in one way I'd like to guarantee a league place for existing HGL teams for the next season(s) as well as long as their team qualifies and they comply with HGL rules.

We could also have possibility to expand current setup to up to 18 (or so?) teams, if that´s required by adding few more matches on some weeks. But as mentioned, there are many things to consider, such as when adding teams with salary budgets on the highest or lowest ends - nobody will ever agree on every decision. Adding a super strong team(s) will make it harder for other to win championship, while adding very weak teams in terms of salaries causes games which score isn't hard to guess beforehand. So in that sense some kind of play-in series/playoff could work in determining participation rights for next season, but as also said before, I kind of don't like the idea that team would lose their place in HGL due to that.

Like I´ve mentioned, having 2 separate level divisions wouldn´t solve the problem of weakest teams either (if wins are their ultimate goal) to have separate level divisions, as they are most likely only going to have somewhat equal matches with each other only, and within current league setup they´ll also meet each other (and have that chance).

So given this - and all that I´ve said about this matter during a year or so on forum discussions - I strongly think we should stick with current one league level league setup.

Last edited by Wagner at 8/3/2025 8:04:09 AM