BuzzerBeater Forums

ok im going to jump around a bit here.

under the assumption that the engine successfully exits from part A (ie: half court), part B is entered. There are a few basic events that will happen here.
- Steal.
- Turnover.
- 3pt shot attempt.
- 2pt Shot attempt.
- Non-shooting foul.

The way that the GE enters into one of those events is going to be very much dependant upon the offensive selection vs defensive selection and i dont want to quite get into that just yet. i want to perhaps focus on something a bit more specific like, a simpel jump shot.

So lets say that the GE has decided that player X is going to shoot the ball (as a 2pt attempt) and lets just remove the fact of how he got there (eg: Drive/pass etc). Lets just say for simplicity that he is going to shoot the ball somehow.

However - the game engine will take into account some entry information. This would be:
- shot clock/Game clock (<time>)
- Driving to shoot or shooting off a pass (<shot_entry>)
- Self-created shot. *
Ive asterixed that last point because im not sure if its valid or not. I will just park it for now.

So you have a basic formula of <time> + <shot_entry>

Now lets look at the player stats - Player X has Jump shot + jump range definitely in play here. This is where im goign to get quite speculative. A normal Jump shot from say, 2ft inside the key, I would say has zero factor of inside shot. What about a pull up jump shot from just below the FT line? Does this take into accoutn inside shot? Lets say it does, and that sometimes, the factor against IS is zero.
So we have - JS + JR + IS. (ive corrected myself later down the page on here - just showing my working).

What about driving? Driving will defiantely be a factor of how the player drives in order to get into that position to take the shot, but does it influence the actual shot itself? Im actually thinking it doesn't.

So I think we have the player stats covered. Lets just ignore stamina and experience for the moment as well.

The factors which are applied against the JS, IS and JR skills will be a factor of the distance from the ring. <distance> Pretty easy. Except that i dont think it gets applied against JS.
So we have (JS + (<distance_factor>*JR + <distance_factor*IS>)).

As ive typed that, im thinking more and more, that IS is not part of the calculation. I think there will be two shot types - A jumpshot and a drive. Jumpshot will use JS and JR, drive and dunk/layup will use IS.

So its simply (JS + <distance_factor>*JR) - Pretty straight forward. Distance factor at just inside the 3pt line could be say, 0.5 and increases as youg et closer to the rim, and decreases as you get further out (that will be dealt with in 3pt shot). Higher JS and Higher JR will result in a higher net score. So literally, a 2pft Jumpshot, from 15ft out could be something like that
(15JS + (0.8)*12JR) = 24.6 - Actually I think the JR gets applied to the JS as a factor. So the formula is actually.

JS * <distance_factor>*JR) - in the above scenario again, it would be (15 * (0.8)*12) = 144


Last edited by Coach Regan at 7/1/2014 3:11:55 AM

So lets explore that. Player X has 15 Jump shot, but instead he has Atrocious JR - So the number is 12. If we used Jump shot of 15 as the baseline and listed the scores that would come about from the list of Jump ranges, where the distance factor is 1.0 (ie; really close jump shot, distance).
So the formula being - 15 * <1.0>*Jump Range
and ive just listed every 2nd one in the table below.
<b> Jump Range - Net result</b>
1 - 15
3- 54
5- 75
7- 105
9- 135
11- 165
13- 195
15- 225
SO - what does this mean. Someone with atrocious Jump range is purely reliant on their jump shot for getting the shot in. Whereas someone with equal Jump Range to their jump shot gets an enormous benefit.

Is this right? ooooooooo questions - ok so im not sure What I can do though, is im going to analyse some of the game data using that game analyzer tool. For the above hypothesis, im going to look at the Jump shots taken by guys on my team, whom i know the Jump shot and Range. Shots not taken off of a drive. And ill see what i come back with. There will be some variance due to the differring defences played and OD of the opposition, but if i use the same players, and the same scenarios for a whole season of static statistical measures, I should be able to get rid of the noise from other factors. WE SHALL SEE!

In your two posts I have never been shocked with the amount of data you put in.
Where did you get all this data?

thats awesome feedback thanks for that, ill spend some time adjusting some items and post some better details later.

Im assuming some of the conversations you have had were outside of the federation? like ur chats with BBs? So id be able to find them?

id like to hear more about this.
Just to clarify, i believe he is saying that a driving layup shot itself. .... in other words, what contributes to a players driving FG%.

- personally for me i always thought DR + IS = layup/dunk off of a drive. (although sometimes pull up JS? Not sure). Either way, I think a drive almost always leads to a shot inside the key, to which IS is going to be used? So either way, IS has to be used?

If IS has no direct influence on driving layups, then how would you determine one players ability to make layups over another? Purely on driving?

ok well thats interesting. I dont have any stats to back it up, but in general, ive always noticed that, guards in particular, will shoot a lower FG% (overall FG%) if their IS is lower.
And i always attributed that to drive-type shots being missed.

So im kinda agreeing with Nachtmahr on this one. ive actually got Game analyzer pumping out some games into excel, once i get to 5 or so games, ill have a look at 2 players who have dramatically different inside shot, and see if their driving FG% is different. (ill see if this gives me enough data as well).

So yer, ill be back in 10 mins with some data!

ok so one thing i thought needs some clarification is what actually constitutes a drive.

It was being suggested that a dunk was or was not a driving based shot. In Game Anlyzer, 'Dunk' is just dunk. doesn't give anymore info.
looking at one game, the following are dunks.

1) S. Yiwen (A) gets off a great pass to S. Godfrey (A). S. Godfrey (A) throws down a powerful two-handed dunk. Scored.
2) B. Perman (H) goes up strong for a dunk. Scored.
3) T. Trinh (H) throws down a powerful two-handed dunk
4) Quick drop-step move leads to a two-handed dunk by M. Wassersztrum (H) off of a nice pass from R. Simmons (H). Scored.
5) I. Elias (H) goes up for a dunk in a crowd

So pretty much the first option there is off a pass, so no driving there. 4th option above is also off a pass, although i think the quick drop step move sometimes comes without a pass - either way this doesn't involve driving (?)
The 2nd, 3rd and 5th options above though are all ambiguous? Going for a dunk in a crowd to me suggests a big drive from outside and dunking over a crowd?
Moultinho doesn't clarify in his game analyzer. Dunk is just dunk. and its a close range shot.

So the problem i see here, is that if you treat some of the above items as driving, then your end-stats may be different than if you don't.

Does anyone have any clarification about the above named 'dunk' items and why they do or don't involve driving?

Anyways for my little stats im about to do, ill assume dunks are NOT using driving.