BuzzerBeater Forums

so there is the aggression trait, which is for fouling, although my belief is that it is seperate from the ability to draw fouls - but thats just my opinion.

There has also been a lot of discussion of late about Game Shape management, and that some players GS is easier to manage than others, which i think is a pretty commonly known phenom - eg: Why did player X pop in GS, but not player Y yet they played same minutes?

Basketball IQ - dunno about that one, i personally don't think so, i havent seeen enough eveidence to suggest this..... - Experience, skill set, opposition, tactics - for me, i dont really see the point in having a hidden IQ because there are enough other skills that could contribute to an IQ...., particularly Experience.

going back a step, the ability to draw a foul I also believe is a hidden trait, but as I said i believe it is seperate trait to the aggression trait. I did some research a few season back also to prove that a players FT skill level is not correlated to ability to draw fouls/get fouled/foul opposition.

Also i think that there is a 'fitness' trait, which is related to how often a player gets injured. Some players just seem to get injured A LOT, whereas others just won't ever get injured. This may also be related to the GS management variability, but im not sure, yet to be proven at all.

most of those are just rumoured though as everyone has said. These are just the ones that I believe exist in some form or another.

Currently, Im doing a research about the IQ hidden..

Again i am NOT a Game engine Tycoon or anything. But Am a College basketball coach who enjoys this game in recreation. I've found that BB REALLY REALLY tries to imulate "REAL" basketball. So to your point I DONT think there is an IQ...That is Experience. A players experience in REAL life is what makes up his/her IQ. And BB provides us with an experience skill.

I dont view Agressiveness as a "hidden skill" but that is something that a player either has or doesn't you can't train it which is why i think BB didn't include that as a "skill" as a coach recruiting i can tell if a kid likes contact when he's on offense or not. And likes contact on defense or not. These are not always the same. A kid who likes to attack and get bumped driving (drawing fouls) is not always the same player who likes to "rough it up" defensively. In the NBA think of Birdman, Reggie Evans, etc. These guys on Defense foul often, set hard screens dive for loose ball etc. but they dont shoot lots of FTs. So i think BB has taken that into consideration with a "hidden skill".

Lastly to your "fitness" we call this Durability. Again this is something that is NOT trainable in REAL life so i am guessing its something BB factors in in yet another "Hidden Skill" to the point as a coach, i have players that are made of glass, hurt ankles, broken foot, sprained wrist, etc. we can't teach them not to get hurt its just their body. And then i have players who play through ANYTHING and are never in our training room for treatment. Again i believe BB's Skill sets (visible skill sets) are all trainable, and the "hidden ones" are things that if you are trying to make a game as REAL as possible which they do a great job at. then you have to factor in certain untrainable things that are just in players DNA.

Lastly i think there is a "Clutch trait" in real life i know players have coached players who can't hit a shot all game but if we are down 1 we want him taking that shot and he hits it. I am starting to see that in BB close games down the stretch certain players with a "clutch gene" seem to get better in close games while others who maybe overall good players play worse in those same situations.

All this is opinion!!!! thank you

Clutch comes with experience. You can train with a foghorn and hand in your face to emulate a buzzer beater.

If iq is covered by experience so is clutch.

Maybe you meant "the desire to have the ball in your hands with the game on the line"

yes i agree, clutch would be covered by experience.

the desire to have the ball in your hands with the game on the line

they would call that the hidden 'Kobe' trait.

Maybe in BB terms... But again if the game is immulating real life... Clutch is NOT gained by experience sorry. You either have it or you dont. Again i am not speaking as a BB guy ( i am not really) i am speaking as an NCAA basketball coach... You can work a guy out and practice with the clock whinding down and all of that all you want and he could make it 100s of times, but you can recreate "pressure or the moment" guys either have that or they dont.

If clutch was experience then you'd see guys increasing their game winning FTs made or shots made through out there career. And you couldnt explain how guys can come in as Rookies and the pressure not affect them and they just make big shots. a "clutch" trait or gene as i have been hearing lately is why guys can shoot 90% from FT line an entire season and get to the line down 1 with 2 shots and less than a second left in the game and clank both FTs. Sorry i just disagree that more experience means more "clutch"

just my humble opinion.

Maybe in BB terms... But again if the game is immulating real life... Clutch is NOT gained by experience sorry. You either have it or you dont. Again i am not speaking as a BB guy ( i am not really) i am speaking as an NCAA basketball coach... You can work a guy out and practice with the clock whinding down and all of that all you want and he could make it 100s of times, but you can recreate "pressure or the moment" guys either have that or they dont.

If clutch was experience then you'd see guys increasing their game winning FTs made or shots made through out there career. And you couldnt explain how guys can come in as Rookies and the pressure not affect them and they just make big shots. a "clutch" trait or gene as i have been hearing lately is why guys can shoot 90% from FT line an entire season and get to the line down 1 with 2 shots and less than a second left in the game and clank both FTs. Sorry i just disagree that more experience means more "clutch"

just my humble opinion.

Phone not letting me bold. But let's visit paragraph 2 sentence 1

See LeBron James

Now lets visit paragraph 2 sentence 2
Those rookies are not coming in having never played basketball before or having never been in a pressure situation before.

I understand you are an NCAA coach. But keep in mind... You are a coach. Those that can't do coach. Maybe you used to be able to and are too old, or maybe you were never at the level. But either way, you cannot say you understand it from the situation they are in.

I can't say I understand it from their situation either as basketball was not my sport of choice come winter.

Again I am not arguing your CONCEPT... Just the way you are phrasing it... Clutch you can train. You CANNOT train the desire to want to have the ball or the desire to want to be the go to guy.

In football they do 2-minute drills to train QBs to the clutch situation, they also do 3rd and long to another clutch situation.

In baseball it's called "2-strike hitting"

Hockey "penalty killing"

Do you want me to go on further of different ways for every single sport there is to practice a clutch situation?

No need for the personal attack, plus as you said, if he was able to then he technically can understand the feeling.

Clutch can be practised, but I think nothing can really be compared to the real situation where you have the ball to make the game changing shot in the dying seconds of the game.

Although when you think of it in BB, if there is no "clutch" trait, then it's probably bucketed in with experience.

With all your responses, I can conclude that experience actually is a very important skill.. but still, I think their are more hiddens into the game..

For a college coach, your spelling/grammar/punctuation seem to be awfully suspect at best and downright atrocious at worst. I'm not saying you're definitely not who you say you are, but you'd certainly improve your credibility if you proofread your writing.

Also, plenty of people have tried to come in and speculate about BB according to principles they think are more realistic and more closely parallel real-world basketball. In a lot of cases, they just end up confusing themselves and others with realistic notions. One example that comes to mind: many people (including myself at one point) speculated that a player with high JR would be a better passer and improve his team's overall flow, since his higher shooting would space the floor for his teammates and force his defender to close hard to his jump shot or whatever. However, statistical analysis has shown that this is not the case.

Again i am not speaking as a BB guy ( i am not really) i am speaking as an NCAA basketball coach

As nice as this sounds, it's really actually counterproductive to speculate about BB based on IRL coaching experiences or tactics. Just enjoy BB for what it is: a very nice basketball manager simulation game that does its best to provide a realistic experience but has clear fundamental differences in some areas due to its nature as a simulation.

First to you n the other person. This is a FORUM not a Lit & Comp class. So grammar, spelling, etc aren't being graded. Secondly to the "those that can't do coach"... the saying is those that cant do teach. Coaching and Teaching are 2 very different professions. Teaching doesn't require recruiting, evaluation of talent at a prep level, projection of long term success, establishing strenght and conditioning program, travel to and from games and to and from recruiting events. There's a reason the highest paid teachers dont come close to the highest paid members of the coaching fraternity. (not saying they shouldn't... My mom taught 43 years in public school system! UNDERPAID!!!!) And you probably know but in basketball the percentage at any level D3 to NBA is extremely low for people who attempt to enter coaching having never been a player themselves. but to the point below.

See the confusion i think people have with Lebron is that he didn't increase he clutch ability. He made 1 game winner the entire playoffs. and on his career has an exceptional low P.E.R. in situations where his team is down 1 or 2 with under 2 mins. (Pacers playoff game 2 bad turnovers, missed 2 3s against spurs and had 2 bad turnovers. thus saved by Ray Allen...who has an NBA all time top 5 PER in those same situations. Behind guys like Derrick Fisher & Robert Horry.) So again BB or not clutch isn't making the game winner its your PER in situations under 2 mins in close games. What i was saying in my post to start before we started jumping all over the place with this is that I believe (MY OPINION) that BB has a trait for players that takes into effect "clutch" and somehow increases or decreases a players in game performance in certain situations based on that hidden clutch factor.

This does NOT mean that certain guys always hit game winners, or FTs...But in the last 2 mins turn the ball over less, or get critical steals on possession when the other team is trying to tie or win the game. Block a shot etc. Again just being a basketball mind here reading inbetween the lines of my games. Thats all. is this fact NO, is it backed by some waste of my time in depth analysis NO. Just opinion in response to the original topic.

Thanks for weighing in though i appreciate the conversation about not just the game but also real basketball.