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Not ad hominem. You simply don't share the same experience as those in smaller nations, nor does the cessation of those nations completely and utterly impact you in the slightest. It really does come across as the members of bigger nations telling us what our experience in BB is/should be.
You can *have* an opinion, but don't be insulted if I devalue it somewhat compared to people sharing said experience. Still jonte... at least you're *trying* (unlike some others here who simply yell: MERGE!).

it is ad hominem because my two claims are not based on my own experience and my motives are not relevant in this discussion. as you said "nor does the cessation of those nations completely utterly impact you in the slightest"..

I understand that you get the impression that users of big nations are just jealous and you argue they are not affected and therefore shouldn't participate too much. however, they give some valuable impact to the discussion. some of them also have valid arguments. my two points are relevant for your idea of how the merge should happen, not my. So it was more of a friendly and maybe helpful critique.

I dont think I have a *opionion* on this myself, well maybe I have, but I am trying not to be too restricted by my idea and if you read this threat i have changed my view on thinks several times.

The issue with "new managers", at least from people I've spoken to (I once had 5 of my students sign up - and all quit for this very reason), isn't the lack of competition - it's that at the very first they are competing with teams significantly better than them. Success early on matters.

that is what I meant with lack of competition. maybe I wasn't clear, I should have said lack of a equal-leveled playing field. This can be the case if you are the only strong team among weak teams or if you are a weak/new team among strong/old teams.

it is ad hominem because my two claims are not based on my own experience and my motives are not relevant in this discussion. as you said "nor does the cessation of those nations completely utterly impact you in the slightest"..

I understand that you get the impression that users of big nations are just jealous and you argue they are not affected and therefore shouldn't participate too much. however, they give some valuable impact to the discussion. some of them also have valid arguments. my two points are relevant for your idea of how the merge should happen, not my. So it was more of a friendly and maybe helpful critique.

You immediately told me *not* to dismiss you, before you'd even allowed me to respond - ad hominem, tu quoque. In my first or second communique with you, I said "at least you're trying, jonte".

The ONLY managers I'll dismiss out of hand would be the ones who a) come from big nations, and b) state that MERGE SHOULD HAPPEN, and/or c) THEY GET TOO MUCH FINANCIALLY.
I reserve the right to tell them that they don't know the *small-nation-experience-of-BB*, and that their arguments are - for the most part - incorrect.

Additionally, the very first post BBRyan states the situation quite clearly. If I give less weight to an opinion (note: only on this topic) from a big nation user, then I'm only following ground rules laid down by the boss!

"We're all in this together"... yet here *you* are, telling us what our experience is.

LOL, I expected better from you. My bad. I haven't told anyone else what to think -- you must be thinking of your countryman, who has told pretty much everyone here what to think.

If I give less weight to an opinion (note: only on this topic) from a big nation user, then I'm only following ground rules laid down by the boss!

And if you dismiss those from large nations out of hand, you are simply closed-minded.

"...what a great idea for retaining the financial advantages of small nations." - overplayed, dude. I really don't think you have the slightest idea of the "financials" of a small nation team.

And if you are trying to sell anyone the idea that ALL nations are not economically interacting, you are a con, and an unsuccessful one at that.

You immediately told me *not* to dismiss you, before you'd even allowed me to respond - ad hominem, tu quoque. In my first or second communique with you, I said "at least you're trying, jonte".

The ONLY managers I'll dismiss out of hand would be the ones who a) come from big nations, and b) state that MERGE SHOULD HAPPEN, and/or c) THEY GET TOO MUCH FINANCIALLY.
I reserve the right to tell them that they don't know the *small-nation-experience-of-BB*, and that their arguments are - for the most part - incorrect.

Additionally, the very first post BBRyan states the situation quite clearly. If I give less weight to an opinion (note: only on this topic) from a big nation user, then I'm only following ground rules laid down by the boss!

ha nice reverse. but whatever, I don't want to talk about logical fallacies.
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wtf are you talking about. you did not respond to my first post at all, while only trying to avoid the bad aspects of your idea which other and me have mentioned. what if someone meets a) and b) you don't hear him?

may you share your *small-nation-experience-of-BB*? maybe your financial standing? maybe also the exerience of a team in the second division of japan. I have no idea and no experience, so enlighten me. how is it like to play in the II. div in japan. are there bots, are you able to play at the salarylimit and still participate in the playoffs?

how does it feel to start as a newcomer in japan? do you know?

Last edited by jonte at 4/22/2016 10:32:23 PM

ha nice reverse. but whatever, I don't want to talk about logical fallacies.
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wtf are you talking about. you did not respond to my first post at all, while only trying to avoid the bad aspects of your idea which other and me have mentioned. what if someone meets a) and b) you don't hear him?

may you share your *small-nation-experience-of-BB*? maybe your financial standing? maybe also the exerience of a team in the second division of japan. I have no idea and no experience, so enlighten me. how is it like to play in the II. div in japan. are there bots, are you able to play at the salarylimit and still participate in the playoffs?

how does it feel to start as a newcomer in japan? do you know?

Not sure if it was intended or not, but that's coming across rather agressively. If that's the intent... then well ok, I guess thee & me are done conversing. If that's the case, you'll only get either the same in return, or be ignored.
I'll choose the latter. Have a good one.

Last edited by malice at 4/23/2016 1:03:24 AM

"We're all in this together"... yet here *you* are, telling us what our experience is.

LOL, I expected better from you. My bad. I haven't told anyone else what to think -- you must be thinking of your countryman, who has told pretty much everyone here what to think.

Erm...

Of that there can be no doubt. Anything less than a complete reshuffle is nothing but a bandaid, or as I have said, rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

You categorically stated that there MUST be a complete reshuffle, disregarding smaller nation opinions to the contrary.
Sure, trainerman has strong opinions. So do I. So do you. Difference is, he & I are actually from said "smaller nations".
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If I give less weight to an opinion (note: only on this topic) from a big nation user, then I'm only following ground rules laid down by the boss!

And if you dismiss those from large nations out of hand, you are simply closed-minded.

Not dismissing out of hand at all... just if someone's going to come in with jackboots on, and state THIS IS WHAT MUST HAPPEN - like... your previous comment stating that there MUST be a complete reshuffle.
If you're prepared to come in with suggestions/ideas/concepts that are palateable for the people whose game is going to change, then sweet. Let's talk. If you're simply going to hit me with the same inflexible commentary that you've proferred thus far, then... yup, you'll probably going to find me *close-minded*.

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"...what a great idea for retaining the financial advantages of small nations." - overplayed, dude. I really don't think you have the slightest idea of the "financials" of a small nation team.

And if you are trying to sell anyone the idea that ALL nations are not economically interacting, you are a con, and an unsuccessful one at that.

I haven't discussed "economical interaction between teams" one way or the other. But if you're trying to assert that being in a smaller nation is somehow an international win button due to an imaginary financial advantage, then you're simply mistaken.
Please note: (http://www.buzzerbeater.com/world/overview.aspx)
Inside the top 29 teams, there are one to three teams from what could be considered "micro-nations".

Still... Mike? You're coming across with a more than healthy dose of angst...

Last edited by malice at 4/23/2016 1:10:34 AM

please stop summerizing what you mean to read out of all of this ;-)