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If your theory is correct then why don't past results support a more variable mix of success? In almost 11 seasons the best team usually wins. Since season 3 there's been 14 cup and league trophies split amongst 3 teams. The balance of power from top to bottom has been extremely static.

Just because the top teams continue to have an entrenched advantage, doesn't mean his theory is incorrect; if you removed enthusiasm you might well have more than 14 cup/league trophies split between 3 teams. I think there are a couple reasons why the balance of power has remained relatively static:

1) At the top divisions, everybody is a pretty good manager, so you're not going to rise through the ranks very quickly on human skill alone. Even if you are the very best manager, you are still only marginally better than the other very good managers around you, and it is easy to imagine it taking seasons of being a marginally better manager before your team can catch and then surpass the old guard.

2) As you said towards the end of your post, the friendships that develop between managers who've been at the top level together for 5+ seasons tends to lead to an unofficial league-wide mTIE anyway. If you believe mTIE is an advantage to the top teams (and having followed this thread, I do), having these understandings between friends (who are probably coincidently also the top teams, or they would not be staying in the top division for 5+ seasons straight) only adds to the pile of advantages entrenched teams already enjoy.

The way I see the issue is that asking whether mTIE is an advantage/disadvantage for weak teams misses the point; weak teams are not really competing with the top teams, they are competing with each other to avoid relegation. The teams a league-wide mTIE really hurts are the decent teams who have moved beyond fear of relegation and are now trying to challenge the top teams. These are the teams just below the top, who are trying to dethrone you, the ones who DO have a legitimate shot at stealing a game by going normal on the road, or being able to protect home court even with a TIE. Taking enthusiasm decisions away from these teams means giving them one less weapon to try to use against the older, stronger teams, and it extends the number of seasons a decent team needs to grind out marginally better improvements before he can compete with the big boys.

mTIE is sort of like a ceiling that says, 'We'll make it easier/simpler for you new teams to go from bad --> good, but we're going to make it really, really hard for you to go from good--> title contender." That is an outcome that is ultimately in favor of the already top teams, any way you slice it.

I personally believe a league-wide mTIE rule would make things more boring and hurt more teams in this league than it would help in the long run, but you guys earned your way here so you have the right to play however you choose. What concerns me more is the idea of using a league-wide mTIE as some sort of statement/boycott to pressure the BBs to change the whole enthusiasm system.

As everybody probably remembers from their younger days, enthusiasm offers a ton of options for teams in lower divisions looking to make a playoff run and steal promotion, continue a cup run by surprising a stronger opponent, etc that aren't as applicable to teams entrenched in division one. I worry about seeing the system scrapped just because it's positive aspects are less obvious this high up the food chain.

Who are you?

Who are you?

Sorry Edju

I think clearly the solution is that we need more broken mutual TIEs. Introduces extra risk and uncertainty.

So, um, cruzanm423.... mTIE on Saturday?

Heh, obviously I'm just a division V team, was just throwing in my two cents. I realize this is NBBA business but if a possible motive for choosing to do a league-wide mTIE is to force a BB-wide change in the enthusiasm system, I felt like there was nothing wrong with posting my own thoughts about it.

Heh, obviously I'm just a division V team, was just throwing in my two cents. I realize this is NBBA business but if a possible motive for choosing to do a league-wide mTIE is to force a BB-wide change in the enthusiasm system, I felt like there was nothing wrong with posting my own thoughts about it.

No worries, your essay was just way to thought out and had references to the good ole days (which were prior to when your team played)......

16 teams all agreeing to MTIE is not going to change a 50k team game. If it does, then I am afraid what 16 teams from the US could really do.

I would be all for playing every game in our league on even terms. It would give the division equal footing with all the other fortunate teams in lower divisions who are TIEing their leagues and can afford to CT an NBBA team on one night.

Who are you?

Sorry Edju

For?

Who are you?

He are Dancer.

Who are you?

He are Dancer.

Next you're going to tell us you are Human.

Im sorry, Ive had like 3 mountain dews and 3 cups of coffee. With that message I got the mental image of two gunfighters staring each other down. I think of more importance in our contest is going to be what you do with your oh...8 million in the bank between now and saturday, moreso than any broken mtie.

A quick note, anytime I either A catch someone trying to normalize at my place to steal a win and normalize them in return and get a win or B tie on the road and have the other team use a normal to beat me I feel like its a small victory. Im sure theres some kinda math or theory or alignment of the planets that proves otherwise, if I had the answers I would have never demoted in the first place. Just saying.

Preparing for more syllable heavy exchanges. Probably some single syllable four letter varieties as well.

P.S. If you wanted to REALLY talk agreements, we could look at you throwing the game at my place in return for me CTing Lake Merrit, bringing him into a W/L tie with you with a heads up season finale at your place to secure homecourt in the first round of the playoffs. IF you were into that sort of thing ;)

Last edited by cruzanm423 at 2/18/2010 3:21:05 PM

1) At the top divisions, everybody is a pretty good manager, so you're not going to rise through the ranks very quickly on human skill alone.

Either way, I've proposed we take this into our own hands in a way that we do our best to ignore this unpopular and unrealistic aspect of the game. I'm not holding my breath for changes to occur to the existing system.

who are probably coincidently also the top teams, or they would not be staying in the top division for 5+ seasons straight

..or you are underestimating the effect of enthusiasm. Maybe it's been the make or break for some teams in staying up and demoting. We'll never know.

The way I see the issue is that asking whether mTIE is an advantage/disadvantage for weak teams misses the point; weak teams are not really competing with the top teams.

That's just one aspect of this system that I dislike. As I said its unrealistic, unpopular AND its supposed rationale for existing isn't sound. Plus it encourages collusion. Did I mention that it's unrealistic? It's a carryover from Hattrick which didn't need to be carried over.

These are the teams just below the top, who are trying to dethrone you, the ones who DO have a legitimate shot at stealing a game by going normal on the road.

Those are the teams the slightly better team at home normals. Of course, only after a mutual tie can't be agreed upon.

I personally believe a league-wide mTIE rule would make things more boring and hurt more teams in this league than it would help in the long run, but you guys earned your way here so you have the right to play however you choose.

Yeah, it'd be really boring to focus on the realistic aspects of the game, which all come secondary to making an enthusiasm choice/agreement.

What concerns me more is the idea of using a league-wide mTIE as some sort of statement/boycott to pressure the BBs to change the whole enthusiasm system.

Nothing of the sort. It's prob not going to happen anyways, but it would be the only way to avoid letting all the behind the scene agreements effect results. Maybe nothing changes, maybe the balance shifts, maybe something in between. It'd be great to find out.

As everybody probably remembers from their younger days, enthusiasm offers a ton of options for teams in lower divisions looking to make a playoff run and steal promotion, continue a cup run by surprising a stronger opponent, etc that aren't as applicable to teams entrenched in division one. I worry about seeing the system scrapped just because it's positive aspects are less obvious this high up the food chain.

I've mentored teams from DIV all the way up to the NBBA. They didn't get here by CT'ing stronger opponents in the cup, or CT'ing during league games. Promotion pays alot more then an extra cup win here or there. This isn't Hattrick where it pays to stay in lower division, there are big differences in revenue streams between the divisions. The most successful teams almost never CT, but feel free to keep thinking that is an option which is making some kind of difference in the game.