BuzzerBeater Forums

Clippers got CP3.Mavs got Lamar and V.C. The NBA is going to be insane!

I know they have all these new stats they are meant to show how good a player is, I just think the tried and true are just that... tried and true.

I'm 32, I still love looking at Assist to Turnover Ratio and Shot Percentage. :D I bet the older guys (older than me guys, that is) don't even like 3PT%.

Still, your Advanced Metrics show pretty much the same thing I said, both players are very good and both players have certain advantages over the other.

Here is what I want to know. Paul has a substantial amount of Assists more than Rose, yet Rose gets more Assists every 100 Possessions... does Paul really get that many more possessions in a game than Rose? Both are the PG, so the primary ball handler, and will possess the ball on what, 95% of the plays while they are in... maybe even more. Are the Hornets that more up pace than the Bulls?

What I do love about Rose the most is this... he is only the 3rd Highest Paid Bull. 3rd. That's cost effective value. Just over $6 Million this upcoming season (not sure if the shortened season will change the Salary, since they won't be playing 82). Deng and Noah both make more than him (both are very good) in that $12-16 Million Range.

Chris Paul... I'll have to look at it. Didn't he put up a few Triple Doubles last season? If I had to choose, I'd go with the one that brings more to the team since talking PG. After all, you got SG, SF, some C... other positions are MEANT to score, so Scoring is what I would weigh least when talking Scoring, Assists, Percentages, Turnovers, Steals. I would rate it over Rebounding and Blocks.

How do you judge? For me it has to be Assists/Turnovers, Shooting Percentages, Steals, Scoring, Rebounding, Blocks. Although I might switch Scoring for Stealing in the case of a Rose, where he's so explosive scoring.

I love the metrics, because they do a lot of combining and give you a more clear picture. If you just look at steals you would say Chris Paul is a better defender, but if you go to the advanced metrics they take into consideration a wide variety of things to determine just how much of an impact someone makes on defense. I think steals is a very overrated stat. Allen Iverson was not a great overall defender, but he sure he get a couple steals every game. That's why when you look deeper it shows that Drose is probably a better defender, which makes sense because he is more athletic and has better measurables to matchup with other point guards.

I think PER, win shares, WAR, etc... are pure gold. Yes you can take an assist/TO ratio and gain value, but you can't always gauge it because of the players around you. TO% gives you a look at the true turnover rate without needing to look at the ability of other players around you to finish. Now when a guy like Steve Nash can get a ton of assists without a great supporting cast, now that's PG at it's finest and you don't have to look at the advanced metrics...however, to see his overall impact you do.

Now don't get me wrong, you can look at regular stats and they can be useful, I just don't think they do a good job at telling the entire story. In a time when so much is media driven and awards are won or lost based upon how many ESPN highlights you have, metrics are the way to go. Just ask Lebron James how he made the all defensive team...it's called the chase down block and it looks good until you get in the playoffs and get torched by Jason Terry. I'm not saying Lebron is not a capable defender, but ESPN drives his status to higher than it really is on that side of the ball.

I'm a baseball guy and to truly tell if a guy is good on defense you can't just look at errors and fielding percentage. I love the defensive handbook people come out with because it shows that guys like Derek Jeter are frauds defensively (no I'm not discrediting his offense or his leadership). Reading into things you will see that Jeter has terrible range as he has posted 2 of the all time worst single season put outs per nine innings numbers. On those teams his starting pitchers were only middle of the pack in strike outs so he had just as many opportunities as other players. Sure he could have had bad luck one year and be on this list, but to be consistently low on this stat is an indicator of range. That's also why he had to rely on a jump throw...his arm wasn't strong enough and he couldn't circle around a ball in the hole. Same reason why you don't see him dive to the hole and throw people out from his knees. The fact that he has a gold glove is because people try to only use the media and regular stats...not the in depth look at the true defensive worth. As a disclaimer I will say that Jeter deserves to be in the hall of fame even if he never won a gold glove so that you don't just think I'm hating on him.

Anyway, that's just a couple examples I could think of....but it is the reason why I don't just look at the normal stats.

As for who I would take...I would probably take Rose. Better defense, shooting will improve because of the type of mentality he has to put in the work, and he is younger/healthier. If I had scoring pieces in place and it was for only 1 year, I would take the more seasoned, pure PG in Paul.

I really like Rondo as a PG. Yeah, he has a tough time shooting but he makes everyone around him so much better, which is what I believe the PG position is all about. He's also an underrated rebounder and he's a terrific athlete. I know this statement will offend a lot of people, but I believe he is the best pure PG in the NBA.

A year ago there was a discussion going on here about Rondo or Westbrook being the better PG. Pretty much everyone except for 1 person agreed with you that Rondo was the big talent and obviously better PG.

The guy defending Westbrook did it so well that he unconsciously encouraged me to start following the NBA. I think now, a year later maybe more than 50% will agree that Westbrook is the better PG in comparison with Rondo. Personally I prefer Westbrook as well. The proposed Ronde+Green for Westbrook+Perkins deal would have been a bad trade for the thunder and I'm glad they didn't even consider it.

Rondo does not make those around him better as much as those around him make him better. I think he is the most overrated player in the game, personally.

But... He's my boy.

Then you can freely disagree. I take no offense to other opinions!

True that. Butr overall My boi mr.mvp d.rose is best pg in the leauge.

My judgements(likely very wrong) based somewhat on last season and somewhat on 3 days of basketball:)

1.Durant-Looks absolutely unstoppable, his mid range jumper is nice.
2.Lebron-Looked good on both ends, didn't like how he played against the zone.
3.Rondo-I liked the driving in game 1 quite a bit.
4.Wade-Playing good ball, not sure why he/Lebron aren't shooting any 3's.
5.Rose-Took over at the end vs the Lakers.
6.Kobe-Shot too much in first two games, will be tough to stop if he plays like he did vs the Jazz.
7.Melo-Really liked that game against Boston.
8.Paul-Looked good in his first game for the Clips.
9.Love-Still the best rebounder in the league.
10.Dirk-First two games were ehh.

Honorable mentions: Howard, Ellis, Allen off the top of my head.

likely wrong? No. Very!!! Rondo...............#3?????????????????????? I dont think so.