BuzzerBeater Forums

7 out of 13 already, Wagner...

...it seems the people are voicing their approval. That is great.

Wagner, regarding the setting up of a forum thread:

1. I believe once the forum thread is named and opened, the name cannot be changed. (The only exception I have found is if it is a Federation, which this is not); and
2. Only a team with supporter, I believe, can create a Poll. Furthermore, the Poll needs to be setup at the start of the thread; and finally
3. I don't believe a Poll can be added to a thread (Anyone is free to say I am wrong on this).

Therefore, it seems the best solution might be for us to vote for the HG League name here in this thread, so you know what to name it. If you are still wanting a poll of some description added to it, I'd be happy to create the thread with the poll.

It actually doesn't matter who creates the thread. However, as the Commissioner-to-be, we will wait on your decision regarding this.

Potential League Name?

Offered up thus far:

BBHG (BuzzerBeater HomeGrown) (Wagner)
The League (Wagner)
H²G²L (Heroic Home Grown GreatestS League) (demars)
IHGL (International HG League) (MrJ)
HGL (Hadar)

5

I've been rocking a home grown team for close to 20 seasons now I think, purely because I like the challenge of it, and I get that rules are important, but one of the things I love about this game is I don't have to get online for hours every day, even at all every day in the times that life gets busy. I hope in the spirit of this being a competition played in good spirits on a voluntary basis with absolutely no material benefits to winning we shouldn't have to worry too much about people cheating. I'm fine with copping a 0-50 loss if I stuff up and forget to click accept on a pick up game. If I annoy participants through not being on top of my scheduling to the extent I earn a ban along the way I'll just withdrawn because obviously I wouldn't be as invested as much as everyone else if I was doing that. You won't need to toss around whether it's one or two seasons, I'll just go back to playing the game I had previously and not worry about this added extra. But I will do my best to stay on top of scheduling games. I just don't want this to be something that feels onerous or burdensome, I get enough of that in my actual life.

Thank you very much for clarifying these things MrJ.

Yes, in that case it's a good idea to have the voting for the league name now.

And sounds like most situations needing voting need to be done with this "forum method" that we're doing right now - for some we could of course just open a dedicated poll thread (which could include discussion about that issue being voted).

As for my propositions (BBHG and The League), if someone isn't familiar and wants to see where they stem from, brief explanation be found from this post:(324689.209).

By description (and possible poll for it) did you mean description in the first post of the thread, or additional description (in addition to league name) in a title of that thread?

I have already written some introduction text for the first post of the thread (which will obviously be still edited before publishing and we can discuss the information needed/necessary or beneficial in that opening post - if it's ok for you guys that I'll start the thread?), but might be eager to utilize (read: link) your excellent informative post(s) (such as 'What is a homegrown team') in the opening post(s) if that's fine for you MrJ?

Last edited by Wagner at 3/8/2025 9:15:27 PM

Hello Deano, thank you for a post. It's always nice to read posts where people let us know why they think how they think... That, to me, creates a stronger community, and also helps me to see (in this case) your views on things in clearer manner. Your response actually deserves a proper reply, so even though it's almost 4 AM, I'll try to write something hopefully meaningful.

For instance you mentioned you wouldn't want it to feel burdensome, and I share that wish (I guess it's just/also that what I'm trying to achieve with encouraging people to write about why they think how they think, as for instance burdensome', 'arduous', or 'onerous' to different people means different things, and is triggered by different things).
And like I mentioned earlier, I truly wouldn't mind everything happening automatically in the league, but this is where we stand, likely as long as it's not an official league of BB.

So in order to better be able to understand what is it exactly that people feel being difficult for instance in a rule set that I proposed, I have encouraged people to speak up their mind... This way we can find solutions.

There are multiple challenges within some parts of the rules, which will require us to take a look at them before deciding whether to apply such and such rule or not. I've made some thinking on penalties/rules, and can send some of the problematic scenarios here in the forum when/if you guys are ready, so we can then consider whether it's better to refrain from enforcing such and such penalty, for instance because in some cases it could be hard or impossible to prove who was the guilty part, especially without establishing certain arduous practices (such as demands for screen shots - again a thing that could divide opinions though, as for some it's next to nothing and other person doesn't like the added work that would create).

But we'll just have to try to find some middle ground I guess, or at the very least in the beginning try to learn to understand what is it actually that makes things feel burdensome to all of us, because all of us are different and see this thing from their own perspective.

I just wanted to send you a short message quickly (but it continued and continued after all, stretching again to 4000 character post), that I understand (and partly share, somewhat surprisingly maybe?) your concern - it is a good goal to make it something we feel we can be part of in a long run, and yet at the same time, I hope we can retain certain complexity in the rules.
Not for the sake of complexity and in order to be able to penalize people as much as possible, but because they serve some meaning. Whether all of them are necessary or not - maybe not, but I suspect enforcing some might be cancelled anyway (if using my proposition on penalties as a base line here) unless we can find a fair way to enforce them (and be sure about the fairness of each penalty delivered - but this is where I'm going to need your help to assess the situations - I just haven't sent them to the forum yet as you guys have had lot of reading to do without them already).

But few things that we can (and I think will) make to lessen the burdensome feeling are:
- arrange all regular season matches in one go, as then when you do it properly, it is all done and nothing can't be forgotten
- send a reminders to teams on official league forum thread about playoff time closing in, so that they remember to arrange matches each week. (If we feel necessary, it is possible to send reminders as BBMail too if we feel like it - not necessary to decide right now of course).
- keep working towards the same goal, and trying to listen and understand each other. There is no chance that we all would agree about everything, and there might be even big differences on views in some cases. But that doesn't mean it couldn't become fantastically working, the most interesting league in BB. To me, I believe it will. :)

5

I've been rocking a home grown team for close to 20 seasons now I think, purely because I like the challenge of it, and I get that rules are important, but one of the things I love about this game is I don't have to get online for hours every day, even at all every day in the times that life gets busy. I hope in the spirit of this being a competition played in good spirits on a voluntary basis with absolutely no material benefits to winning we shouldn't have to worry too much about people cheating. I'm fine with copping a 0-50 loss if I stuff up and forget to click accept on a pick up game. If I annoy participants through not being on top of my scheduling to the extent I earn a ban along the way I'll just withdrawn because obviously I wouldn't be as invested as much as everyone else if I was doing that. You won't need to toss around whether it's one or two seasons, I'll just go back to playing the game I had previously and not worry about this added extra. But I will do my best to stay on top of scheduling games. I just don't want this to be something that feels onerous or burdensome, I get enough of that in my actual life.

Well said, my friend. Hopefully, we can implement this league soon and with sufficient effort.

Personally, while I'm looking to run my first ever 100% HG team (10 players with under $80k salary), I know I'm going to get beaten badly in this competition! But it's the start of a long, and hopefully fulfilling journey.

This HG League will be fun, but I'm moreso looking forward to training up a team and one day returning to the ABBL.

Last edited by MrJ at 3/8/2025 10:07:33 PM

Thank you very much for clarifying these things MrJ.

Yes, in that case it's a good idea to have the voting for the league name now.

And sounds like most situations needing voting need to be done with this "forum method" that we're doing right now - for some we could of course just open a dedicated poll thread (which could include discussion about that issue being voted).

As for my propositions (BBHG and The League), if someone isn't familiar and wants to see where they stem from, brief explanation be found from this post:(324689.209).

By description (and possible poll for it) did you mean description in the first post of the thread, or additional description (in addition to league name) in a title of that thread?

I have already written some introduction text for the first post of the thread (which will obviously be still edited before publishing and we can discuss the information needed/necessary or beneficial in that opening post - if it's ok for you guys that I'll start the thread?), but might be eager to utilize (read: link) your excellent informative post(s) (such as 'What is a homegrown team') in the opening post(s) if that's fine for you MrJ?

Yes, I'm referring to the description at the start of the thread as once the thread has been created, we can't add posts to the front of it.

As for creating polls...

I think that first discussion could include a poll if there was one you really think we needed. Otherwise, a new thread can be created for a new poll when the need arises.

Regarding the 'when', I think you could start that new thread, with whatever you deem appropriate as the first discussion, as soon as you are ready. The sooner, the better imo.

1 too

Thanks for clarification again.
That's a good point, that we can't add posts in front of it. But I (if I start the thread) can still always keep on editing the first post if needed, right?
One of the options would be that I'd send the proposition for example to your BBMail MrJ, or here in the forum, and see what you guys think of it and how would you possibly change it (to minimize the need for editing it in the future, and to make a good impression to people who find it for the first time) before actually publishing it in the forum thread.

As for introductory post things to consider include for instance how much information I'll add to the post itself, and how many links will be added to the main (first) post to provide additional details of the league, and whether it's better to create my own texts for each linked information page, or is it ok to refer to posts created for example by MrJ.

I think it's likely we won't be needing a poll to begin this homegrown league forum thread... But having said that, I suppose by providing a list of name suggestions, we need to be able to reach a conclusive decision on a league name before actually publishing/creating the new thread, right?
So I don't know if people noticed, that we need to vote now/really soon for the league name, as you brought up those earlier proposed league names again (as no votes have been cast yet)?

There is a possibility to make a poll for it, but it's totally possible to do the voting here on this forum too. I'd just want to see many opinions cast on this voting, as while we can change the name later, it's not totally ideal to do such change at a later time.

The point is though, as we can't change the forum thread name after being created (remember that we can and likely will create another official league thread for the season after that, so at the point of season changes titles can be "changed"), it's best to decide name of the league before we (I?) will create a new thread for the league.

If we vote here in the forum (as I understood from your post) for a new homegrown league name, my vote goes to BBHG, which has been my original suggestion for the league name since September 24th, 2024!

If we vote her, my vote goes to my proposal, from the very beginning of this (long) journey to a HomeGrown League.
H²G²L is a :
- nice name
- respectful souvenir of a Sci-Fi Novel
- better choice for HomeGrowns

(yes, I know how to sell my point of view ;) )

Thank you for your vote, WiMaOl!

Also, please vote for the league name from list above (provided by MrJ) if you have a favorite from the above list!
Same goes with other participating managers, so please vote for name, so we can get the new forum thread for the league started soon!
(For those who didn't read through all the long posts and wonder what's the rush: want to include league name in the title, as title can't be changed later on).

It is possible to do the ground work without having established the forum thread, and as we're not going to try to convince anyone else to join for the first season of the league, in that sense we are not in a terrible rush to publish/establish the thread - having said that, it's good to do most of the writing and planning of intro post content and links provided in it (and such) during this time we're waiting for league name results. And like mentioned, I've already written a lot of it.

A word/though about polls, especially considering homegrown league. This was something that I didn't think of earlier for some reason.
As background info, I think I've never started a poll (and can't do so now being non-Supporter), so I have a question.
I'd assume it's not possible to determine who is eligible to vote in that poll?
If controlling of that (by person who started the poll) isn't possible, then I guess those official polls do not work optimally for our purposes, as I´d assume we want to ask opinions of managers who are participating to the league (and maybe in some cases, opinions of those who are granted a spot to the league for the future seasons), and not from a "random bunch" of managers (which could be the case with an open, official BB poll as we don't see who has given those votes).

It is of course not so easy to see current results of voting when voting is done within forum thread (like this one), but maybe we could take a habit of writing a forum post, which we then update as voting progresses and more votes are casted. The problem with this of course is, that it's always left behind by new posts, and will become increasingly hard to find.

I'll just add the current score here though, not in a separate post (if someone wants to create such post, they are of course free to do so). I won't make assumptions who will vote for what, so it's only actual votes given so far that are counted here.
Remember, there are 14 possible votes (if we allow only voting by current participants), and only 2 have been cast so far, so please vote if you still haven't done so. Name is such an important part of the league (and in short so undesirable to change later on), that I would encourage everyone of us 14 to voice their opinion on this naming of the league-voting.

As there are so few of us voting (and it's possible that not all people even vote, even though we'd really hope you will!), one option of course, if we want to add a variety to the name voting, is to give one manager 2-3 votes instead of one.

For instance: with 2 voting possibilities, manager gets to cast 2 votes, first giving a favorite suggestion 2 points and second 1 point only to managers' second favorite option.
If voting with 3 possibilities, manager gets to cast 3 votes, first giving 3 points, second 2 points and 3rd 1 point to his 3rd favorite option.
That way we might be able to see a wider picture on how managers really think of these names.
This was just a random suggestion that occurred to me just a while ago, and on my behalf there is no need to implement this kind of method for this name voting, if you guys feel 1 vote per person provides good enough result!?

Current votes:
1 BBHG (BuzzerBeater HomeGrown) (Wagner)
0 The League (Wagner)
1 H²G²L (Heroic Home Grown GreatestS League) (demars)
0 IHGL (International HG League) (MrJ)
0 HGL (Hadar)