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The correct way to address this would be to ask the new managers what they think. Unless of course you also believe that people who think 2 years are too long shouldn't play this game.

In my humble opinion, it is not the size of an arena which is the biggest hurdle to new managers in this game, but instead it is the knowledge of the game.

I would think that 2 years is a reasonable expectation about the time period it would take to acquire that experience and knowledge.

I believe that the lower divisions should be the training grounds of "learning" managers and I also think it is appropriate that the arena "matures"at the 2 year point which is about the same time that a "good new manager" is ready to tackle Div II or 1 in a reasonably size country.

Should new Managers be able to compete "equally" with seasoned experienced Managers in this game, straight away, then this game will cease to be the strategic challenge that it is.

Should new Managers be able to compete equally straight with the most experienced managers. then I reckon they're going to get quickly bored because they will have nothing to aspire to

Rather than enabling new managers to be able to run before they are walk (build stadiums to completion before they learn the game), I believe that it would be better if we could speed up the rate that managers can gain the level of knowledge required to compete with the best

I.e. more resources that aspiring managers can access , perhaps Youtube training sessions or interviews

Utopia has shown me that there are lots of long term participants in this game who just havent got a clue

i.e. gameshape etc etc etc

Last edited by Sid Vicious at 11/4/2014 5:30:46 AM

I will point out for the record that 11 of the 16 teams in the NBBA currently fail to feature a 20k arena

King of declarative statements and now also adept to cherry picking:
14k+4K+500+50=18550
Number of NBBA teams below 18k arena: 3. Number of teams below 17.7k: 1 (who has 0 wins in the league, will see how long it takes before he wins a game).
Number of teams above 18.9k arena:11

If you don't see the fallacy in your reasoning I can't do it for you, mate.

Did you not ask:

would you please be kind enough to clarify whether you think waiting 2+ years to have a 20k arena is: ...

or not opine:

Of course most D2 teams have 20k arenas, so you're really only making the case for the lowest divisions in each country.

or:

I'm not sure if you really believe most new users (again I don't mean you and I) are willing to invest 2 years just to get to a point where their revenues are close to those of their opponents. D3 in England has plenty of 20k arena teams and that's the division you start in.

See why I keep asking you to define "competitive"? Because it's a moving target. You keep referencing 20k arenas, both before and after you mentioned the 18550 arena query, but apparently that's your personal cherry that I'm not allowed to pick. Clearly, the fallacy in my reasoning is thinking that just because you said something that you actually said it.

Here's what you wrote:

Incidentally, I think you're committing a fallacy that a lot of people make - equating things that you personally don't like and assuming that it's the reason for something else you don't like

You don't see how this perfectly applies to you, do you?

No, but to be fair, neither of us has seemed to clearly grasp anything else you've been saying. Maybe in a post or two that quoted bit will mean something else that will then make some sort of sense, at least for whatever period of time that it is before it then means something else. Maybe I should just let you discuss this among yourself and see if you can formulate a clear, cogent and consistent series of thoughts rather than confusing what you are trying to say by repeating what you actually say.

None of it's worth the bother, to be honest.

The simple answers are that I don't think arena costs are in any significant way responsible for users leaving the game. Heck, the stupid back and forth we're having probably is more likely to drive people away if it persists than arena costs ever will. Larger economic issues, sure, game balance issues, absolutely. Some arbitrary two year deadline to "complete" an arena, depending on the definition of "complete" in play at that time? That's almost certainly inconsequential, as a review of the threads in the suggestions/help/global forums would suggest - there's simply nothing to substantiate that there is a groundswell of people who get frustrated at the cost of building an arena.

Anyway, enjoy the last word. This is going nowhere, and we could either spend another hundred posts going nowhere without grace, or I can just walk away. I like that option better.

Here we are, talking about how to save this game... and BBs are doing what ?

I think that we need them to get more involved into the community again. This is a great game with a poor management.
And an APP :)

Yeah, is nice to see the changes and all. Some of them needed a lot seasons ago, but still. Is so sad to see this great game going deeper in doom, and as i see it no external measures are taken to recover old users, and in case they are taking some, should be nice if they inform us... BBs need to be more active with the community

Last edited by FSH at 11/6/2014 7:30:01 PM

I also have noticed Marin a lot more of recent and recently received a kind bbmail from him.


Back to topic

Without a good quality free to download app I do fear that the game will quickly go the way of Encyclopedia Britannica who initially backed the door to door salesman selling hard copys, over being at the forefront of technology where they could have become todays wikipedia and hence as a result of this poor business decision, the business became victims of advancing technology.


The link below is a picture of a stereotype individual who ignore changes in technology

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blakeimeson/2743011812/

Last edited by Sid Vicious at 11/6/2014 9:20:33 PM