BuzzerBeater Forums

Dominque was the the first guy off my list, and Pierce is pretty darn good too, I was just holding it to ones I still rated higher than Lebron on a "greatness" scale.

'Nique is greater because he had the testicular fortitude to beat Jordan in a dunk contest. Period. Pierce is greater because he invented the go off in a wheel chair but come back in and hit a big shot play. lol Although I would say that a guy that ranks that highly amongst all the greats that the Celtics have produced has to be considered greater at this point.

Ok throwing up a list of accomplishments for each player doesn't say jack other than the other guys played longer than LeBron. He's on pace to absolutely destroy all of them in individual awards. And you're right percentage isn't everything. But when they take the number of shots that Terry does it's a good indication of the level of shooter he is.

Ok, you might want to do a tad bit of research before you just start throwing this hot garbage out there. LeBron gets too worried at crunch time? Why don't you do yourself a favor and look at his numbers for the last 2 games of the finals. Having a triple double in one and shooting 60% from the floor ain't too shabby. And Jordan's "competitive fire" was him saying "I'm gonna take this shot no matter what" which to his credit he made the majority, not gonna argue that, but LeBron has a PG attitude where if the shot is open he will take it but if he sees a better shot on the floor he doesn't hesitate to pass it for better or worse. That doesn't mean he's less of a competitor it just shows he's aware of his teammates and trusts them to make a shot. And LeBron went to Miami to share the spotlight because he couldn't handle it, eh? Because he hasn't had that since his freshman year in highschool or anything. He went to Miami to play with people who are actually good at basketball. What a selfish guy, wanting to have a good team around him, what was he thinking? I mean Jordan, Magic and Bird did it all by themselves, didn't have another good player on their teams.....or they all played with multiple HOF'ers. Obviously going to Miami only increased the spotlight on him.

He can't handle it, period. You can't argue that in the BIGGEST games of his career he has been non existent. How about that 4th quarter scoring last finals? How about that defensive effort that was not there in those games you say he did well in. I have watched EVERY finals game Lebron has played in and most of the other playoff games. I think i've done the research. I even admit he has had GREAT games in the playoffs and I thought when he scored 25 points straight against the pistons he had just gotten over the hump....obviously not true as they got worked by the spurs. Look at it objectively instead of through your rose colored glasses and you will see what EVERY analyst has come to see as well....Lebron does not rise to the occassion. Of course people like you make excuses for him...I'm surprised you haven't mentioned that Delonte was sleeping with his mom and that's why he sucked against the celtics.

You are also arguing points I NEVER brought up. He went to Miami to share the spotlight, period. He didn't like being the only guy and that's obvious. You think he has more of a spotlight? I don't think you could have had more of a spotlight after he QUIT in the 2010 conference finals. Was Miami under a microscope? Absolutely, but it was the whole team, not Lebron. Lebron was under the microscope by himself in Cleveland and when the front office brought in guys Lebron wanted them to, it still didn't help. Was his squads as good as Larry, Magic, or Michael? No and i never said it was. I actually agreed with you about his attitude on passing, however Jordan averaged a lot of assists per game for a SG. Lebron plays POINT forward....not SG. If you replace Jordan into Lebron's situations and he would have at least 2 championships if not 3 right now because he ALWAYS showed up in crunch time. You can say Lebron has done this or that, but in the biggest games he can't put it together. That great defense on JT you talk about disappeared in the last couple games of the finals and that got Miami beat just as much as his inability to produce on the offensive end. Another sign that he doesn't have the mentality of a Jordan is the fact that he misses as many free throws as he does. Jordan was near automatic. Lebron doesn't have the focus to be that guy. Don't forget....I can't stand Jordan.

I'm with you on talent as well...he is a talent like no other. If only he would work as hard in the offseason as the great ones do, he might get there too. Until then he will have a very sub par post game and an inconsistent jump shot. Will he put up statistical totals like nobody else in history? Quite possibly. Will he show he is the "greatest" probably not.

*ON PACE to destroy them, not HAS Destroyed them. Projecting stats/accomplishments is in general not a good idea.

A la Ken Griffey Junior, Barry Sanders, etc...

I'm with you on talent as well...he is a talent like no other. If only he would work as hard in the offseason as the great ones do, he might get there too. Until then he will have a very sub par post game and an inconsistent jump shot.

Just to follow up, to put things in perspective:

Word on the street is that this summer Kobe incorporated the Dirk leg hike into his jump shot. You can find those on his Drew League YouTube vids. If LeBron wants to be considered a great player, he'll have to earn it by working to do things like that in the offseason, such as adding a post game (which to some extent he has, but it could be so much more effective). LeBron is undoubtedly a great player and will be among the game's best for the foreseeable future, but as we've seen, he's going to have to win a championship to be among the greats of the game.

Also, just to get a feel on this: at what point does this lockout affect perspective on the winner of this year's title assuming we have a season?

I think it favors veteran teams with old legs! lol

As for the Kobe example, that is exactly what I'm talking about. That guy watches film of a lot of the great players and learns what he can do to get better. You were very generous speaking about Lebron's post game, which he has none in my opinion. The main staple in his game is size, athleticism, and finishing at the rack. Practice is where you win championships and become the best ever, especially in the offseason. When will he learn? Of course he could win championships because he has a partner in crime that is a great player in Dwade.

No you're right, LeBron is a straight up bum. Will never amount to anything. Apparently the athletes of today's NBA are complete garbage. I mean if you're just gonna argue championships then that's all you. Can't deny LeBron doesn't have any, that's a fact. But players seem to become much more "legendary" after they retire. People act like MJ, Magic, Dr. J, Bird etc. all were completely unstoppable. You can say MJ dominated the league, he did, he also didn't have to play against a 6'9" 260 lb. powerhouse. Not saying that LeBron would shut him down every play but it seems like all of you think that LeBron is just this big lumbering Shawn Bradley reincarnation. And you can say if you put MJ into LeBron's situation that he would have won 2 or 3 championships that's all well and good. But what if you reversed the situation? LeBron probably would have drove that Chicago team into the ground right? Psyke. And c'mon with this LeBron chokes in the finals garbage. He's had one team that was good enough to get there, this previous years team. The other team's he's been on would have been terrible if it wasn't for him. Sorry his rotation defense after multiple teammates blew it wasn't up to your standards. Don't come at me with this "I watched every game" bull ish. So did I. Every minute. To say LeBron doesn't play good D is crazy. And about this him giving up thing, if you had to carry a team for 7 years with zero help you might get a little upset when all of your teammates are just not good enough to get it done. The fact that people aren't comfortable giving him his due justice just proves how good he is. You really think everyone was just digging MJ? Nope. There won't be another MJ because of his attitude I'll give you that. But saying LeBron won't be one of the greats is just disrespect. All of you can't honestly think that LeBron won't win championships. He's 8 years in, still in his prime and has the best team in the league. You're all right, he has zero chance to be great.

Evidently you are a 3 year old that can't read because again you are saying things I never said. I said his "talent" cant be matched and that means I called him Shawn Bradley...wow. I'm done arguing in circles with someone that has no ability to be objective. Go kiss your Lebron poster good night for me...