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The point of his thread is being transparent. I didt see a read thing he said or pointed out the was childish.

Can MM marin be more transparent. yes he can. We are volunteer too. A lot things don't add up, why should we break our backs to find out the math, we have nothing to compare it too. I think it pretty low for BBmain or someone elese to come jump out and say " Nope thats not it" every time. If this was a grown up conversation he would be transparent. We are volunteer we can only go on to know so much, then come to the point of say and things being transparent.. We can only know and do so much, but when does that knowing become a fact for the betterment of BB.. We can not say that only BB Main can.

The guide is labeled basic. the game has changed so much, I understand start of the season changes reports and etc. Im all for that I read them. My whole concern is change the basic BB guide to up to a date fashion. So what he is talking matches these changes. On the fly telling is breeding confusion. IMo Need to know basis deal other things, the private side the code side. Thing like this are needed to understand nothing private about it. Why should it be treated a private?

The game doesn't play like the basic guide anymore. There has been a lot of changes a lot for the better of the game. I don't have a issue with what lemonshine did . While I think he could've sent it to BB marin directly, is a better way to do this., But BB Marin is not going to reply to that.. I think putting it in public squares was risky and maybe even low but it was effective. To getting this thing addressed.

Last edited by Mr. Glass at 5/23/2015 1:30:43 PM

Could've just stuck your findings/suggestions in a polite manner in the right thread and we all could have had a grown up discussion about it.

Again what exactly should I try to prove? Marin issues an announcement that fewer young good players should retire. Several people report that more players and specifically more young players are retiring than it used to be the case, and he says this is exactly how he wants things to be. He also clearly states it's not up for discussion. What exactly do you want to discuss or suggest? Whatever you're going to say or suggest, he's going to claim (assuming he changes his mind and feels like discussing) he is right and everything is working as intended, because he's actually saying and doing 2 opposite things, so at least one of them is going to be true.

So yeah, I've tried the bug forum. I didn't see any point in suggesting that he implements what he wrote in the new season announcement, since he claims it is already the case. So I figured that the only realistic option was mocking the (illogical) method and the arrogance displayed in promoting such method.

Blur, in light of all of the above, please do tell me what this thread should have been like to kick start an adult discussion? The question is open to Giannis (not sure why his post has been deleted) and Halla too. I'm confident I'll be able to state my case that this was not an option by linking Marin's posts or quoting him directly. Apologies if that takes a long time, but I only have sporadic access to the internet.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/23/2015 1:40:50 PM

You may have a good point ( I have no idea what the new FA changes have been like) but the mocking just seems uncalled for.

Best thing to do would be layout what you have found in terms of examples and where the new FA parameters are. Then put forward your case as to why you think the changes may actually be worse than before.

Usually sensible points and suggestions breed sensible discussions.

Best thing to do would be layout what you have found in terms of examples and where the new FA parameters are. Then put forward your case as to why you think the changes may actually be worse than before.

I've already done that. Marin said everything is working how he wants it to. Here: (270442.1)

My problem is not with the new FA policy per se, what I do not accept is that someone insults my intelligence when he says both the announcement and the actual implementation are coherent and deliver on what it was promised. This is my main problem. I don't disagree with the New Season announcement. Claiming that preventing 22yo 34k HoF players from becoming free agents (while they would have become free agents until last season) is the logical implementation of that announcement insults my intelligence, no matter how low it may be.

Note that the FA policy isn't up for discussion and, in any case, in general I agree with what was outlined in the New Season post. The problem is the actual implementation does not match that, despite all the claims by Marin that this is the case. Because with all that's been said and done, he has still managed to avoid answering how young high potential players retiring ties with the announcement....

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/23/2015 2:21:25 PM

I don't think anyone was trying to mislead you or insult your intelligence. Its only BB, not some evil corporation trying to destroy your life through small print and changes to the FA system.

It might not be up for discussion but we can still have a constructive discussion in a thread as a community? Might not make any changes but Marin would at least listen to the arguments on both sides.

I somehow doubt he's taken anything constructive from this thread..

I do agree with you to a certain point. I believe that why some people did not like the way you reacted is because we do not understand how the new retirement system works. It's difficult to argue about something we do not understand, so trying to understand it better might be the first thing to do.

In a previous, you replied that considering TSP and discarding salary to decide whether or not a player would retire is not the right way to achieve what was in the announcement. I liked your message even if I don't totally agree with your conclusion (if you want to, I could explain why). In a very rough manner, looking at salary would save mono-skilled players while looking at TSP would save multi-skilled players.

Today, I saw a 19-year old Hall of Famer who became FA, he had 74 TSP and a below 5k salary. I believe that, with the previous system, such a player would have retired. I don't have enough inputs to judge how good/bad the new FA system is. I still agree with you to say it looks strange.

Last point, I do agree that BB-Marin could have been a little bit more helpful to understand why a player retires or not, however, one of the big thing in BB has always been to figure out on things work and we, users, always did a good job at guessing. There is a sentence I like, I only know it my mother tongue so here is an attempted translation: "Learn, learn to know, know to understand, understand to judge".

I felt bad that we can't have a constructive conversation so I went to collect some data and came out with the first FA mechanism model: http://www.buzzerbeater.com/community/forum/read.aspx?thread=270433&m=19

As I stated in the message, the lack of samples make the model quite inaccurate but I'm pretty sure your input will be valuable. From what we find, we may be able to better discuss about the recent changes made.

Well, I can't say you haven't been warned, so I'm deleting your post and closing this thread. The personal attacks continued and the discussion has again stooped right down to them. I refuse to discuss anything in such an offensive thread and will not tolerate your attacks further. Try a different approach.