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This discussion gets very wild. Lets reconsider which options are really possible after all arguments taken into account. please add and correct me, I certainly missed a lot.

I think Option 1 is out of discussion, right?

Option 2: merging leagues, but keep National Teams and Flag, etc.

Problems: If you have teams that play in a continential league system but still have there own National Team and Flags, some nations could only have teams in the lower leagues of this league system. They would not have a disadvantage in the draft (assumed they are even spread out in their respective leagues), but they have to share the 16 spots in the first league with other nations. maybe even much bigger nations. Because of this some nations would have less players in the first leagues than other countries and would have a big disadvantage. I know in theory, a player can easily be trained by a manager of another nationality, but I follow from the discussions in our national forum, that it is preferred to have national players in native teams. I think this disadvantage can be very disappointing for some managers out of this smaller nations. At the moment they are disadvantaged because they have less players and managers, but they have the advantage that they can train NT players in there first league teams easily. this is only a problem concerning national teams.

The benefit would be that there is more competition and nobody could free ride on the league system, get lots of money, stay in the first league, tank, whatever. Also the national identity would be still be assured, because managers can talk and communicate about their national team.

I think this is an option which is most favourable to team that play in a small league and which like their national team.

Option 3 Integrate in a bigger country
I think this option hast to be looked at more. In some cases it might be such a bad idea. f.e. merge norge, danmark, finland, island with sweden and have a skandinavian team, or merge austria with swizz and germany, merge andorra with either france or spain...(i hope i wont be eaten alive for this propositions. these are just examples).
The problem I explained in Option 2 would be much bigger and I think it would be impossible in this case to keep national teams.

Option 4

Micro-nations would be grouped together to form new leagues but the teams keep their current flags (as will their draftees). But the group will share a NT and U21 Team, where players with different flags play together as a team. It would be like option 1., national tournaments would improve, but the teams keep their national identity in some way.

This would solve the problem I described in Option 2.But it would destroy some communtities that have trained and planned for their NT team for a very long time.

Also the question of who wants to play with whom is still unsolved. Still it would be a good possibility in some cases

Some kind of International first league competition

a) In the first league we would have managers from all merged countries and in the second league managers would be separated. I can't think of a good solution for promotion/demotion. can you only promote if someone of your league demotes? what if for some reason all teams that demote come from one country?

some kind of championsleague would be more easy to implement, but it would not solve the problem at all. Leagues would still not be competitive, just the cup would be.

adjustments to the leagues income/ avaibility
Decrease the income etc.: This would just make the game not enjoyable for first league micronation teams. It sounds like some type of blackmailing-solution..
just like the idea that they can choose if they want to play in their country or not. This would only make the problems bigger.

Last edited by jonte at 4/11/2016 5:41:05 PM

you have been in your countries top division every single season...wtf are you talking about dude you get the most money possible in the game and you dont even have to field a team to get it, how is this not an advantage?

I don't think that keep it all like it is, is a good solution either. The main problem is not the national tournament competition, but the lack of competition in the league, the resulting not-demotion/ or tank+repromote assurance for micronation teams and the relation between I league teams and II/III/IV league teams.

I think the process has to be very situation-specific. discuss with the managers of each country which solution they would prefer. But at the same time you would have to make it clear to them that besides the disadvantages (lack of competition, boring game etc), which are very subjective, some may like it, some may not (but they probably quit already), there are advantages they have over other managers, that disturb the economics and player market over all.

Out of my head this questions/ decision would need a specific discussion with the managers. (the following section is only for demonstrative purposes, I don't want to pretend to know anything other about the feelings about the managers in the countries, than what have been written in this topic)

Balkans
Albania
Montenegro
Macedonia
Macedonia has 70 managers, also they don't like to merge with albania. they don't speak the same language etc.

East-Asia/Pacific
Vietnam
Japan
South Korea
Thailand
Macau
Indonesia
Singapore
Malaysia
New Zealand
Aks indian managers if they want to join here. Also Ask New Zealand managers if they prefer to join Australia

Middle-East
Lebanon
Iran
Saudi Arabia
U.A.E.
cut Iran and India. India might prefer to play in an southeastasian-conference, Iran might stay isolated. maybe the rest could join with africa or central asia. depending on the better fit


Eastern Europe/Central Asia (For lack of a better name)
Moldova
Belarus
Azerbaijan
Armenia
Kazakhstan
ask them for a name

Little Europe
Luxembourg
Andorra
Austria
Malta
Cyprus
this group is really random. but maybe the others are just as random and I just dont see it. I think i would prefer to join a neighbor country instead of playing in this leagues.

Last edited by jonte at 4/11/2016 8:18:45 PM

you have been in your countries top division every single season...wtf are you talking about dude you get the most money possible in the game and you dont even have to field a team to get it, how is this not an advantage?

Advantage for what? The B3, maybe, but how many teams are we talking here? The leagues, which most people play, are horrible in micro nations. Playing bot teams, game after game, season after season. How fun is that?

The money we earn gives us what? The gap between teams are huge when you start in the division below 20-30 seasons veteran teams. The number of seasons it takes to get even close to beating those teams are insurmountable. Yeah we are quickly able to earn more money than teams in bigger countries, but we don't get to play against those teams. We have to play against very established teams. There are not many real teams to compare with. So you can win against bots, and managers that start to tire. The same few teams, and mostly bots, over and over again. The same teams are dropping up and down every season. Almost no promotion/relegation. It is a stand still, and I don't care about advantage or not. I want competition, and welcome a move no matter what or how. But as I have said before, I would prefere to keep the national teams, because it is fun and one of the major driving factor for me personally. There is no animosity in my preference for having a national team.


Don't forget this group.

Scandinavia/Nordic countries
Finland
Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Iceland
Ranked from top to bottom in number of players.

This would be a group around 450 teams with present managers. I think this might work. But we have a friendly competitive history that would be nice to continue, so I vote for keeping the NTs separate.

@BBs/GMs/LAs: The forums in Norway (possibly somewhat in the other nordic countries) have become so quiet, that I suggest adding a note in the news area about this discussion and/or the national thread about the subject.

adjustments to the leagues income/ avaibility
Decrease the income etc.: This would just make the game not enjoyable for first league micronation teams.

I rethought this. I think it might be a good adjustment. maybe one of the most intuitive. If a nation like Macedonia, Iran or Austria stays like it is, the division income could be fixed, so that the first division managers get less TV income and merch. maybe like a second division in a bigger country. It would solve most of the economic problems.

It won't solve the lack of competition.
It also will harm their national teams a lot, because they can't train high end players in their own leagues.

This might work for countries with 40-60+ managers, but not for countries that have less players. there are a lot countries with less than 10 players.

I think the best solution might be the one I proposed (Option 4) combined with the option of decreased income for nations that don't want to merge.

But that is just my impression. I think the way to go from here is to figure out with each nation for its own which path they want to go

Last edited by jonte at 4/11/2016 6:10:28 PM

However, there are more than thirty users that can't do it. I love win. I love a struggled title but I keep pointing high. The point about the competitiveness is undeniable. But the national identity too.

Advantage for what? The B3, maybe, but how many teams are we talking here? The leagues, which most people play, are horrible in micro nations. Playing bot teams, game after game, season after season. How fun is that?

The money we earn gives us what? The gap between teams are huge when you start in the division below 20-30 seasons veteran teams. The number of seasons it takes to get even close to beating those teams are insurmountable. Yeah we are quickly able to earn more money than teams in bigger countries, but we don't get to play against those teams. We have to play against very established teams. There are not many real teams to compare with. So you can win against bots, and managers that start to tire. The same few teams, and mostly bots, over and over again. The same teams are dropping up and down every season. Almost no promotion/relegation. It is a stand still, and I don't care about advantage or not. I want competition, and welcome a move no matter what or how. But as I have said before, I would prefere to keep the national teams, because it is fun and one of the major driving factor for me personally. There is no animosity in my preference for having a national team.

So, you should be welcoming to a merging of micro nation leagues? Its already been stated time and time again by BB-Ryan that they will not be merging Nationalities, so it is pointless for people to continue to say they are against a merger of Nationalities as that is no longer up for discussion, what is still up for discussion is if we realign micro-nation leagues to make them more competitive, fun and hopefully increase the user retention for micro nations.

Your religion, language, and culture are great things to be proud. You can continue to be proud of them. No one is saying that you can't be proud of them. No one is saying that that flags, forums, nts, u21s will be taken away.

But like you said, this is a business decision. BBs have to make the decision that is best for everyone in BB, not just Iran. The economic issue of micronation is something that affects everyone which is why many users of macronations are arguing for a merge.

If there is a merge, this is your opportunity to shape the future of your community. If there are neighboring countries (Saudi Arabia comes to mind) that you do not want to merge leagues, then you need to speak up and give that shape. There has to be some accommodation that can be worked out so you can keep your Iranian community together but also benefit the BB economy which benefits everyone.

Last edited by Phyr at 4/11/2016 7:11:08 PM