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Other point is that pay-to-participate style of league should never replace HGL as a "premier/go-to"-option, but opinions on this will be differing and eventually that's likely happen in the case of some managers. How is this not a competitor of HGL (as both accept first teams), I´m again asking?

This is your opinion, Wagner. Respectfully, not everyone will agree. I do not.

Which part of it don't you agree with?

I refer to your opinion that a pay-to-play (P2P) style league should never replace HGL. If the 'other' league is preferred by more managers, then the P2P style will naturally become the 'premier/go-to-option'. Time and peoples' choices will decide that issue. You believe the HGL should not be replaced by a PL, but that is your opinion...this is my point.

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree. Managers will choose that which best suits them, whichever this ends up being.

I think your strong dislike for all things Utopia, Wagner, is preventing you from seeing the bigger picture: whether you like it or not, many managers like the Uptopian option and many managers are choosing a HG Utopian team.

HG is HG!

I treat my 2nd team exactly like my first. I do not want it to go brankrupt (whether it can or not). I simply enjoy running 2 teams as opposed to 1. As of the start of next season, my Westopian Tigers will be 100% HG. Why should they be prevented from playing in the HGL just because a few people dislike Utopia so much?

This is the problem I have. This is why I created the 'other' league.

Other point is that pay-to-participate style of league should never replace HGL as a "premier/go-to"-option, but opinions on this will be differing and eventually that's likely happen in the case of some managers. How is this not a competitor of HGL (as both accept first teams), I´m again asking?

This is your opinion, Wagner. Respectfully, not everyone will agree. I do not.

Which part of it don't you agree with?

I refer to your opinion that a pay-to-play (P2P) style league should never replace HGL. If the 'other' league is preferred by more managers, then the P2P style will naturally become the 'premier/go-to-option'.

Time and peoples' choices will decide that issue. You believe the HGL should not be replaced by a PL, but that is your opinion...this is my point.

That is your opinion, which I disagree to the strongest degree. I think by following and participating to discussions you must have had a very clear understanding from the very start (when HGL was being created, that one of the key points in HG scene/community should be that it remains always free for everyone and not ever become pay to play league), that all this work for HGL is done because no other option can create free for all league, which is the only fair and equal way to determine real champion, not an "invitational pay to play-league"!

So frankly I think it's surprisingly tasteless (even unpolite) to possibly ruin the whole basic idea of Home-Grown main league being free for all.

I mean people can play pay to play PL's as much as they want, and I have no means to restrict anyone from doing anything in BB, but I hope what people do doesn't affect HGL negatively.


Again, this is the only fair and equal way to decide any kind of notable champion, an open and free league.
Personally, as I've said before, I wouldn't dare to call myself a HG champ winning such league.
Not to take anything away from the competitional level, which could even become higher (in salaries) than in HGL, but it's just totally wrong to try to make that "go-to HG option" and move "main HG-style league" behind paywall.

Like I said, that is exactly what I wanted to avoid like a plague from the very beginning, and trying to "steal" this position as a main HG league by saying "let people decide" is kind of irritating approach to be honest with you.

Not restricting this another league to Utopian teams (which I wouldn't have felt is in a clash with HGL as we have different "clients" and probably that already should've made you happy enough as you seem to be so eager on getting Utopian HG teams to play each other?) is one thing, but in an indirect way possibly attempting to make that other league "premier/go-to option" and therefore move "main Home-Grown"-style league behind paywall season by season is already completely another story, which makes me disappointed.

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree. Managers will choose that which best suits them, whichever this ends up being.

Of course they'll decide what they do or don't, but as you're usually considerate, I don't get it how you don't want to see the undeniably critically important value in always keeping HG style league free for non-Supporters??

[...]many managers like the Uptopian option and many managers are choosing a HG Utopian team.

HG is HG!

[...]. As of the start of next season, my Westopian Tigers will be 100% HG. Why should they be prevented from playing in the HGL just because a few people dislike Utopia so much?

This is the problem I have. This is why I created the 'other' league.

This I have discussed in lengthy manner already.
That doesn't sound credible though. If it would've been the sole problem and reason for league creation, you would've likely restricted that to Utopian teams only (as was firmly requested).

I think you are being too close-minded on this Wagner to continue this conversation.

Your opinion is noted. As is mine.

You believe the HGL should never be challenged by an alternative; that a 'free' HG league is the ONLY league of value; and that Utopian (supported) teams have no place in BB or in the HGL.

I believe the HGL is a great HG initiative which offers those who like the format and 'free' PickUp game method a way to compete; that a Private (supporter) League offers others an equally opportune way of playing (which happens to be easier to run); and I strongly believe that Utopian HG teams should also be able to play in any HG competition without being excluded.


People like choices, whether you like it or not. Especially if you do not like it...as this can help us 'reflect' like Deano was trying to suggest, on why people like certain things over others. If something is in opposition to what we think, it doesn't make that thing wrong, it just means others choose differently...and we should respect that.


After the inaugural Home Grown Kings Private League is completed, I will reflect on its place in the HG universe. Those HG teams that compete in it will also reflect on its value to them. Perhaps it will dissolve or perhaps it will flourish. Regardless, it won't be dictated by the opinion of one manager.

I respect your views on the importance of the HGL. I only ask that you respect my view that happens to view that Private Leagues and Utopian teams are important too.

Interesting debate. I think HGL was a great idea. And it is also interesting because it is played twice a week. The private league is played only once a week. If I am not mistaken.
If I were a supporter, I would continue to play in HGL and I would definitely play HGK if they accepted me. The more matches, the better. I would not consider HGK as something bad for HGL, but as an opportunity to play more matches. But that is just my personal biased opinion.

hi everyone, firstable sorry for my english
I think there are more serious things than BB and that it is not good to take the head (i don't know if this french speaking can be translated word for word) for a game, there is a way for all the gaming experiences you want,
everyone is free,
long live HGL and long live HGK ... i have a dream : maybe one day we can have a pick up game between the two winners

Last edited by WiMaOl at 5/21/2025 1:18:15 PM

Interesting debate. I think HGL was a great idea. And it is also interesting because it is played twice a week. The private league is played only once a week. If I am not mistaken.
If I were a supporter, I would continue to play in HGL and I would definitely play HGK if they accepted me. The more matches, the better. I would not consider HGK as something bad for HGL, but as an opportunity to play more matches. But that is just my personal biased opinion.

Thank you for your opinions on this, Hadar. It is nice to hear what others are thinking.

Yes, PLs are only once a week. Which is a positive for the HGL as it has 2 per week.

And, yes, playing in both would only mean more HG games.

(Although, Wagner may not want me back in the HGL )

And I agree. Why can't both exist and provide more HG games!

And, Hadar, go to the Home Grown Kings post and say you want ot play...and you're in

Last edited by MrJ at 5/21/2025 10:04:19 PM

hi everyone, firstable sorry for my english
I think there are more serious things than BB and that it is not good to take the head (i don't know if this french speaking can be translated word for word) for a game, there is a way for all the gaming experiences you want,
everyone is free,
long live HGL and long live HGK ... i have a dream : maybe one day we can have a pick up game between the two winners

Thanks, WiMaOl and I really like that dream!

However, if the same teams are playing in both (which to me makes sense), then there is the potential for the same team to win both at some point. lol

Thank you for offering your opinion too, WiMaOl.

@ Wagner...

You have put an enormous effort and time into setting up and maintaining the HGL. While a few of us helped get it up and going initially, you have done most of the heavy-lifting. I think I speak for everyone when I say thank you and well done.

And, to my point, the HGL isn't going anywhere. It's not going to be damaged by other HG leagues being created. You have created a strong foundation for the HGL.

And as others have mentioned, and I agree, more HG leagues means more HG games. Isn't that, after all, a great thing for HG managers? I would also argue it might generate more interest in non-HG teams to learn more about being HG.

We already have managers playing in both. This is a positive.

As WiMaOl noted...there are more important things than BB and this is just a game. So why not get from this game that which makes you happy? If only playing in the HGL makes you happy, great. If being a Supporter and playing in PLs makes you happy, great. If playing in both or neither makes you happy, well that's what you should do. This is what I meant by 'options'. It wasn't a cop-out, just an observation.

You have heard me refer to the Fishbowl (an Australian PL) which was very successful and enjoyable back in the day. One of the things that made it great was that the PLs weren't set up by a single person each time. It wasn't driven by a single person. Instead, because it was well loved and received, someone, anyone, would create and initiate it each season for a number of seasons. To me, that speaks volumes about the 'interest' rather than the 'individuals'.

This is why I said people will choose what they choose regardless of any one person's strong opinion. Options are good. If it's successful, people will want to be a part of it. If it's not, people will move away from it.

The HGL and the HGK can coexist.

That's a cool idea

Yes, PLs are only once a week. Which is a positive for the HGL as it has 2 per week.
And, yes, playing in both would only mean more HG games.
(Although, Wagner may not want me back in the HGL)
And I agree. Why can't both exist and provide more HG games!
And, Hadar, go to the Home Grown Kings post and say you want ot play...and you're in

Thanks for the invitation, when I become a supporter I will definitely get in touch ;)
And I don't think Wagner wouldn't want you in HGL. I think it's a good thing that you exchanged a few opinions. Everyone can have their own view on things.

Yes, PLs are only once a week. Which is a positive for the HGL as it has 2 per week.
And, yes, playing in both would only mean more HG games.
(Although, Wagner may not want me back in the HGL)
And I agree. Why can't both exist and provide more HG games!
And, Hadar, go to the Home Grown Kings post and say you want ot play...and you're in

Thanks for the invitation, when I become a supporter I will definitely get in touch ;)
And I don't think Wagner wouldn't want you in HGL. I think it's a good thing that you exchanged a few opinions. Everyone can have their own view on things.

Agreed.

And healthy too.