BuzzerBeater Forums

To the people crying and moaning about the luxury tax.

Do the Yankees or Red Sox cry and moan about the luxury tax they pay? No, because they still go out there, make their playoffs, win a few world series' (while paying luxury tax), and that's that.

Well they're being taxed for using/spending more money than the other teams not for having more money, which is the main complaint. Having a hoarding tax, not a luxury tax.

The Lakers are not being punished for having more money than other teams. The Nets are paying the luxury tax for using/spending more money.

That's true: but you have to have that money to spend that money...

edit:
And they didn't amass that amount of money to spend by throwing in the towel on seasons

Last edited by EightPackKilla at 11/22/2015 8:29:25 AM

If by trying to make the playoffs, you mean going for a championship, then you're right.

And here you're still wrong. The difference between top teams and bad teams in D1 is much larger than in other divisions. You have teams (the very top) making $600k and teams making $400k in gate receipts. The problem in D1 is that the relative payroll gap between the 2 groups is usually also very large. An average payroll for a competitive D1 is between 500k and 600k, while the salary floor is around 350k-370k. Top teams everywhere spend around $800k, sometimes more.

So you make $600k+ in gates if you're the top dog playing in the B3 etc, but you then carry around $750k-$800k in team salary. You can make $500k in gates if you're reasonably close to the average (let's say $500k total payroll), you have a good record and you're winning games. If you tank you can make around $400k per game in gates (although if you are newly promoted you can increase that number to $500k-$550k or so) with a $350k payroll. So there you go, even by rudimentary math staying at the salary floor and losing games generates a base surplus you won't get otherwise.


Besides, you should just ask yourself why would anyone tank in any division, even lower divisions (where there are human managers that is), instead of "doing well" with a middle of the pack or a good team if the these were the more profitable options...

And you should also ask yourself if you think you would be able to make anywhere close to $9-$10 millions in 3 seasons, as some people who tanked have admitted to, but without tanking (or being at or below the salary floor).

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/22/2015 2:08:11 PM

I don't quite get what you're trying to say. I said that championship quality D1 teams probably won't be able to make any significant profits, which I am sure you agree with. I also said that teams that still make the playoffs can make high profits. The numbers you posted seem to support my statement.

An average payroll for a competitive D1 is between 500k and 600k

This is true. When I was in D1 some playoff teams had salaries in this neighbourhood. But I also remember that the average weekly revenue in Canada D1 was $760K. A competitive team with a 500k payroll would make $260k/week which would be over $3 million a season. By your own number a "competitive" D1 team could make $10 million in 3 seasons

And you should also ask yourself if you think you would be able to make anywhere close to $9-$10 millions in 3 seasons, as some people who tanked have admitted to, but without tanking (or being at or below the salary floor).

Anyways, you can still field a competitive team at the salary floor and make much more than $10million in 3 seasons. You just need to find viable D1 starters with low salaries. The new FA rules, however, make it harder to do it, since most of these kind of players would have salaries above $60k, so you can't acquire them from Free Agency anymore.

Besides, you should just ask yourself why would anyone tank in any division, even lower divisions (where there are human managers that is), instead of "doing well" with a middle of the pack or a good team if the these were the more profitable options...

Remember tanking is boring, but it is easy. All you need to do is login once a month. The other more profitable options involve alot more effort, like scanning the transfer list for good players, setting your lineup and replacing your aging players with younger ones. Managers may not have the interest or time to do this, so they opt for tanking.

OK i said this in another thread, so that I will repeat it here and just be direct...

Users of this game who are expressively concerns that some massive pile of cash, or players, that they amassed...might be taxed...

Are the type of people who will exploit anything in this game they can and don't care about the future of the game, only their place in it. IF they can not achieve an untouchable advantage, maybe they will quit...and maybe they should.

This game will NOT WORK as a business without constantly appealing to new users/new business...
...
You have to lose something. IF you never lose anything...and you are always gaining things...no new user could EVER catch or compete with you.
...
I hope the BBs don't back down.

There ya go. Boil it down like that and I can give it a basketball.

THere is some concern that hoarders would suddenly dump money into the economy.
...
If the money goes to FAs or staffs...then the money will leave the game and be gone the next minutes.

There's a damn good idea. Let those expenditures escape the tax under a 1/2-season moratorium ... otherwise, TAX!

Edited to add a thought: Sometimes the fact that some teams have amassed multi-millions of dollars reminds me of the problem of "too big to fail" that bank regulators are dealing with in real life in this country. In BB, things may have gotten so far out of hand that no good solution exists. If so, then the only choices available to Marin are a sub-optimal action or no action at all. Threatening a tax, as he has done, will cause some teams to dump massive dollars into the economy, a bad thing for the game. That probably already has started, by teams hoping to cash in before the tax applies to them. On the other hand, simply removing (not just taxing) any excess money from the teams that have hoarded, without a warning, "poof!", would be bad for those teams and some managers would quit over it, but it might be the only solution left that is good for the game at large.

So ... are some teams "too big to fail?"

Last edited by Mike Franks at 11/24/2015 12:34:43 PM

As one that is "the problem"- a really rich team in a tiny league,
I think that the BB developer that gave his comment here before was the only one who was right.

In reality, and for the game- the most realistic way to solve it is to make the club's fan upset with this situation, that their club is really rich but really weak too.
This is like in the true world, when a club sell his players or release them for saving money.
Tax will be horrible,
But this way is fantastic, realistic, easy to build.

like- 50% of the fan will come to home matches in the worst cases(like my team), and another effect in the merchandise.
This will not be dead one, but in the other end it will kill the profit from tanking.

Please think about that.

*and I will add the option, maybe, that one player from the draft should play any minute in the field, or at least 12 minutes.
This is important too, it will enforce managers to train at least one player!

*I offer you to "punish", using the fans as suggested before, all the teams that have more than 10 mil in cash, but in levels- when 20 mil+ is the max 50%.
Even the strongest team, that can spend 10 mil on 2 players- it is mean that they don't use all their potential right now, so their fans should be upset off-course!!
For all of the others- if you have 10 mil in the bank, it means that you sold at least half of you squad, so this is why logically everyone that have 10 or above should bu punished.

Last edited by Noam Zaig at 11/24/2015 5:42:32 PM

I will throw out some more ideas in the hope to help you find a solution.

The issue is there is a lack of balance.

... I suggest the following about hoarding etc.-

#1 fix the micro situation such that being a top leagues means its competitive.
#2 Relate this luxury tax to league level
#3 additional measures to REWARD competing teams and CAP low division team asset growth.
...
DI in big nations needs not tax on banked money, and no training cap. TO me for the lower division, the lower the division, there should be a tax on large bank accounts and a cap on the level of players they can train.

Well, I had some idle time for a few minutes and read the post I quoted from. His idea of correcting a "lack of balance" is no tax and no training limits for D1, and taxes and caps for the lower divisions. Yes, that's a quote! Is that the most blatant rich-get-richer scheme you've ever seen? The sky is the limit in D1, but you lower level guys get taxes and caps to your training ... and good luck! 8}