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I wouldn't say much lower. My reasoning is just take a look at the league leaders in any European league. Take Italy for example. The vast majority of the leaders in scoring, rebounding, assists, etc. are NCAA nobodies. No offense to them, but it's true. The only areas where the Europeans dominate is in FT% and 3pt %, which fits in with my belief that Europeans are great at unguarded shots.

I played in the second division in Torrelavega at Juventud Florman. I am aware of the difference in quality you point out. Sabonis (greatest big man ever) played in the ACB shortly after I left Spain.

To be honest, and i played at North Carolina, played at Spain (Melilla Baloncesto) Belgium (Hasselt and Antwerp) France (Besancon) Greece (Apollon Patras) and in the Netherlands (Rotterdam and Leiden (86 caps for the National Team) and the answer in the difference between European Basketball and U.S Basketball is the fact that in Europe players are more allround.

Centers can play forward aswell and can shoot balls and even have dribble skills to go one on one to the basket, my time in the states before my knee blew out
The other dif is that US players train so much harder on school or college that Europe will not be able to compete with that in there system with clubs where they train 3 times a week for 6 hours total. Thats one training in the states.
The only reason we have American players in Holland is that there good and the most important one, they are cheap, the majority is than.
We can hire a player for a small amount and if he is not good enough we get another one cause there are a lot of american guys wanting to play in europe if they dont make the NBA.

First of all, sounds like you had an awesome career. Fantastic!
Second, I don't really agree with you about the more all-round thing, judging solely from the Euro players in the NBA. Big guys cannot really handle the ball very well, at least not any better than their US counterparts.

All the European centers I can think of playing right now are
Diaw Mahinmi Krstic Milicic Biedrins Petro Turiaf Pachulia Koufos Big Z Pecovic Elson Gadzuric

None of them strike me as great ball handlers or able to play forward very well, except for Diaw. Maybe they do and can in the European leagues because the defense is not as strong. I don't know. But I disagree with people who make the point about European players being more well-rounded or having more basketball smarts. I think what they are seeing is that European basketball is much much slower than American basketball and much less creative. I'm not trying to bag on European hoops. I loved playing there- pickup and organized- and I think Sabonis is probably the greatest center ever (except maybe Wilt). Now, he was a truly well-rounded basketball player.

Thanks.

Its also about training, when i was in the States i trained 6 hours a day!! When i played in Europe i trained (not with the pro teams i played for) 6 hours a week...
In this six hours i had shot training, rebounding, skills and drills and defence offence games.

From my 8 i played an severall positions which ended at the point/shooting guard in the US. However the training for center and forward gave me a slight advantage on the other guards who spend 6 hours a day on pure guard training.

Its not a question of who is better, its a question on who spends the most time training and in that case the Americans win it by far. But the problem in this is (looking at American players in Holland) that they are burned out befor 30. 24 year old players with busted knees or enkles are no exeption.

And who cares who is better, as long if its fun to watch and fun to play lets go for it....lol

with regards V.Krieger

I wouldn't say much lower. My reasoning is just take a look at the league leaders in any European league. Take Italy for example. The vast majority of the leaders in scoring, rebounding, assists, etc. are NCAA nobodies. No offense to them, but it's true. The only areas where the Europeans dominate is in FT% and 3pt %, which fits in with my belief that Europeans are great at unguarded shots.

I played in the second division in Torrelavega at Juventud Florman. I am aware of the difference in quality you point out. Sabonis (greatest big man ever) played in the ACB shortly after I left Spain.

FT% leader is Rimantas Kaukenas that played in America before coming in Europe(in his NCAA career he has 11ppg in 27mpg);James White (leader in points and steals) in last season in NCAA was a 16ppg-5rpg SF (All-Big East Honorable Mention -06);Sharrod Ford(2nd best scorer and rebounding leader) in his last season in NCAA was 15 ppg-8rpg and was in All-ACC Third Team;Marques green(leader assist) in 2004 lead the entire NCAA in assist and still leads A-10 in his career,in 2003 leads A-10 in assist and still leads in Steal per game and assist per game the A-10(5.9 apg;2.9 spg,better than Jameer Nelson)

They aren't NBA star level players,but call them NCAA nobodies is a false thing

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 2/15/2011 7:45:08 AM

Kaukenas is/was? better than a lot NBA players. He is not a starter material, but good bench level guy.

I agree with you,I wrote too fast my last sentence and I didn't write well the phrase.

I stand corrected.

First of all, sounds like you had an awesome career. Fantastic!
Second, I don't really agree with you about the more all-round thing, judging solely from the Euro players in the NBA. Big guys cannot really handle the ball very well, at least not any better than their US counterparts.

All the European centers I can think of playing right now are
Diaw Mahinmi Krstic Milicic Biedrins Petro Turiaf Pachulia Koufos Big Z Pecovic Elson Gadzuric

None of them strike me as great ball handlers or able to play forward very well, except for Diaw. Maybe they do and can in the European leagues because the defense is not as strong. I don't know. But I disagree with people who make the point about European players being more well-rounded or having more basketball smarts. I think what they are seeing is that European basketball is much much slower than American basketball and much less creative. I'm not trying to bag on European hoops. I loved playing there- pickup and organized- and I think Sabonis is probably the greatest center ever (except maybe Wilt). Now, he was a truly well-rounded basketball player.

Scola, Ajinça, Bargnani, ... (those are more centers than Diaw so i will count them) ; I know Scola is Argentinian but considering his pre-NBA career, he should be included; Scola has the best inside game in the league

chuck rainey.
but 2nd place.....
JS: Michael Jordan
JR: Reggie Miller
OD: Gary Payton
HA: Bob Cousy
DR: Allen Iverson
PA: John Stockton
IS: Hakeem Olajuwon
ID: Bill Russell
RB: Dennis Rodman
SB: Dwight Howard
ST: Wilt Chamberlain
FT: Ray Allen