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Homegrown teams (II)

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From: MrJ

This Post:
00
324689.212 in reply to 324689.211
Date: 1/11/2025 9:01:10 AM
Swan River Serpents
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
340340
Second Team:
Westopian Tigers
One thing that I just noticed that does seem to be a slight challenge is the arranging the PU game schedule for the duration of whole season in a one go.

I just noticed/realized that if we play one PU game in a week, then we can only arrange them 2 months forward from the current moment (which would mean maybe 7-8 first matches - so only until to about the halfway of the regular season - if all us arrange maximum amount of matches just before the season starts).

It would've been ideal to arrange all regular season matches before the season starts, but that's where we stand at the moment. Please let us know if you have a better solution...


YEah.

I agree...it is an issue.

I think the best thing we can do is:

1. Publish a finalised Schedule (Wehn we are ready)
2. Hope that Managers can arrange them on a week-to-week basis. I suspect there will be many teams, like mine, that do not have many tokens currently (I play a lot of interclub games for fun and tactic testing), so setting PU games long-term would be difficult anyway.

Home Grown; for teams who like a challenge!
From: Wagner

To: MrJ
This Post:
00
324689.213 in reply to 324689.212
Date: 1/11/2025 9:21:03 AM
Wagner College
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
207207
We could also ask teams to let us know before season starts how many tokens they have (if for some reason they don't want to reveal exact number, it would be enough for us to know if they have for instance 4 or more, or 10 or more, which would then respectively allow them to either gather more during the first half of the BBHG league, or in the case of 10 tokens have already enough of them to allow their part of PU game requests for the regular season and hosting (possible home matches?) during playoffs if playoffs are being played with "one loss and you're out"-format as suggested earlier.

For instance, I currently have plenty of tokens so I'd be willing to use them if one is seriously out of them. However, that needs to be then clearly marked to the season fixtures so that I know which ones I'm responsible of organizing (and receive a sanction if I fail to do so).

I'd find it preferable if at least half of the seasons' regular season games would be organized in one occassion, and all the rest when we face the halfway of the regular season.

Why? Because things happen in life, and it's more realistic that things get surely done when they've been done - otherwise someone will surely fail to organize a match. When we do this like 7-8 games in one go, then we can have all teams to confirm they've arranged their schedule until this and this date, and do not need to hope all 14(?) teams remember to do this each week of the season.

I know I might sound negative, but it's lot of matches and things happen, so I want to be realistic and make things work from the beginning as smoothly as possible.

And if such things (not organizing match for any reason) would happen, it would mean penalties and that would needlessly mix those match results (in some instances, couple of 0-50 forfeits could change the league result not only for the forfeited team, but for the other teams in the league too).

From: MrJ

This Post:
00
324689.214 in reply to 324689.213
Date: 1/11/2025 9:24:53 AM
Swan River Serpents
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
340340
Second Team:
Westopian Tigers

Actually, if we think this through, we aren't planning to start until Season 68. That means there is another 12-13 weeks. IF those teams competing started stockpiling their token as of now...until then, every team, regardless of how many they have at present, would have enough to at least set arrange the first half of the games!

Every team receives at 1 per week. Those of us with Supporter, 2 per week. Easy regardless.

Last edited by MrJ at 1/11/2025 9:25:31 AM

Home Grown; for teams who like a challenge!
From: Wagner

To: MrJ
This Post:
00
324689.215 in reply to 324689.214
Date: 1/11/2025 9:36:29 AM
Wagner College
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
207207

Actually, if we think this through, we aren't planning to start until Season 68. That means there is another 12-13 weeks. IF those teams competing started stockpiling their token as of now...until then, every team, regardless of how many they have at present, would have enough to at least set arrange the first half of the games!

Every team receives at 1 per week. Those of us with Supporter, 2 per week. Easy regardless.

Exactly, that's a good point/reminder.
"Problem", if it ever even existed, is solved as long as all participating teams start gathering tokens now if they're low in tokens currently... :) And like you mentioned earlier, this will be mentioned in an information post about the league, so that current (and especially future) managers of the league will remember the importance of it.

From: MrJ

This Post:
00
324689.216 in reply to 324689.215
Date: 1/11/2025 9:37:39 AM
Swan River Serpents
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
340340
Second Team:
Westopian Tigers

"Problem", if it ever even existed, is solved as long as all participating teams start gathering tokens now if they're low in tokens currently... And like you mentioned earlier, this will be mentioned in an information post about the league, so that current (and especially future) managers of the league will remember the importance of it.


Exactly!


Last edited by MrJ at 1/11/2025 9:37:56 AM

Home Grown; for teams who like a challenge!
From: MrJ
This Post:
00
324689.217 in reply to 324689.216
Date: 1/11/2025 9:55:35 AM
Swan River Serpents
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
340340
Second Team:
Westopian Tigers

UPDATED LIST with current number of players including team salaries.


Wagner College (172501) Manager: Wagner confirmed
-87 Players / $227k Salaries (30 players) / 0 players on Transfer Market
Les Gueux du Marais (86508) Manager: Coach Faz Confirmed
-13 Players / $311k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market
Elan Demars (87312) Manager: demars confirmed
-17 Players / $311k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market
Holy City Hoopers (23767) Manager: Gccsteel Confirmed
-13 Players / $154k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market
Buckner Bandits (23579) Manager: T-Lit
-16 Players / $114k Salaries / 2 Players on Transfer List
Madrid Chotis (76877) Manager: Jotadoce confirmed
-14 Players / $208k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market
WiMaOlca (35977) Manager: WiMaOl Confirmed
-12 Players / $323k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market
Rajdersi (237760) Manager: Paul George Confirmed
-11 Players / $308k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market (Didn't include non-HG players) $335k predicted salaries S68
Santa Eufemia Ducks (24340) Manager: GM-Enzo confirmed
-12 Players / $728k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer List
Swan River Serpents (197075) Manager: MrJ confirmed
-7 Players / $57k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer List (Didn't include non-HG players)
Lielupes Melnas Sirdis (146915) Manager: Moneta Confirmed
-9 Players / $138k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market
Suuret Muinaiset (172657) Manager: cthulhu Confirmed
-12 Players / $362k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market
Heywood Big Dogs (196315)Manager: Deano25 Confirmed
-16 Players / $557k Salaries / 3 Players on Transfer Market
Svätý Jur Snakers (172088) Manager: Hadar Confirmed
-13 Players / $636k Salaries / 0 Players on Transfer Market


We now have 13/14 confirmed.


Almost there...

Home Grown; for teams who like a challenge!
From: demars
This Post:
00
324689.218 in reply to 324689.217
Date: 1/11/2025 11:09:51 AM
Elan Demars
III.10
Overall Posts Rated:
196196
About Schedule.

It's easy (for me ) to re-arrange the schedule if we don't want that the best teams win easily the 8-10 first games.
If we want something else, just tell me. I don't know if Playpass can do this, but I can do it (it's just an Excel sheet ;)

From: Hadár

To: MrJ
This Post:
11
324689.219 in reply to 324689.218
Date: 1/11/2025 12:17:59 PM
Svätý Jur Snakers
Extraliga
Overall Posts Rated:
426426
HG League or short HGL is good name.

From: Wagner

This Post:
00
324689.220 in reply to 324689.218
Date: 1/11/2025 8:18:49 PM
Wagner College
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
207207
About Schedule.

It's easy (for me ) to re-arrange the schedule if we don't want that the best teams win easily the 8-10 first games.
If we want something else, just tell me.

I'm glad it's easy for you, if we don't end up using Playpass for some reason. MrJ made Playpass sound very tempting and functionable option too. I'm not sure I'd start using it any time soon, but there do seem to be some of us here that are trying to get things started, so league commissioner(s) job(s) doesn't need to be one man show(s) anyway.. :)

I don't know Playpass and it's functionality either (it would be nice to hear from you who have been using it, that what kind of options and possibilities it offers in terms of, well, everything) but as far as I understood (and remember from what I read from MrJs' post) so far, the match generator in Playpass appears to generate matches randomly(?).

I don't remember if someone mentioned there was a possibility to alter match schedule generator some way, or does it always stay random - and does it take into account same league level team strengths on users request when creating match order for round robin league?). On the other hand does my memory serve me that demars you wrote that Playpass created almost the same kind of match schedule than what was created by your own system?

Making match schedule random has good and bad sides, like I wrote before. S(ome more educated people than me have written quite a lot about it in reddit for instance). If it's random, someone will always "suffer" from unfair timing on those most important matches in a given season, compared to some other team in the league. On the other hand randomness tends to equalize over a long period of time. And if match fixture is randomly created, it is highly unlikely (read: next to impossible) that for instance worst team would face teams in this (unfair sounding) order: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, then 5th etc. (which order would practically extremely probably ruin their season early on).

However, I can't waste this good opportunity to say that I think all the games matter in this league, whether or not you've lost your chances for playoffs for that season.
We are creating our own amazing piece of Buzzerbeater history (and I want to keep this going indefinitely!), and hopefully things will grow even bigger in the future. Having said that, 14 is an excellent number to start with!

And if we'd change the match order manually, then at least I find it very difficult to evaluate which changes in fixture would make it better and keep changes equal to all teams (because the order of which you face teams does have effect to some extent I think). I might be overthinking this or thinking the wrong way, but I tried to make something in Excel and failed miserably when I tried to change match order while keeping record which match needs to be transferred to which week and whether or not the balance of schedule remains fair and equal after this and this change....

It's very difficult to explain, but experiment was hard. Just as a rough example (if you haven't tried it in Excel yourself), when you for instance change five matches (out of 7 weekly matches) from, say week 3 to week 6, and another four from week 1 to 5, then few other from week 2 to 8, and 6 matches from week 4 to 1, and then four from week 5 to 1, etc. etc., you might be lost at that point whether or not:
A) all matches are still surely played (or did you create duplicate matches some week, and/or is some match now missing altogether)
B) did this really improve the balance/sensibility of the match order, and
C) very importantly, if it did improve balance, did the match order remain equally fair to all simultaneously?

This last point, C), I find quite hard to make sure when you alter things manually, because 1 change affects everything else. But maybe it's because I have quite little experience and knowledge about this side of league creation..

From: MrJ

This Post:
11
324689.221 in reply to 324689.218
Date: 1/11/2025 11:54:09 PM
Swan River Serpents
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
340340
Second Team:
Westopian Tigers
About Schedule.

It's easy (for me ) to re-arrange the schedule if we don't want that the best teams win easily the 8-10 first games.
If we want something else, just tell me. I don't know if Playpass can do this, but I can do it (it's just an Excel sheet ;)


Thanks demars.

O only mentioned Playpass as it was random and I thought we would want to go with random to keep it completely open and fair for the first season. However, if, as Wagner seems to suggest, randomness is not essential, then yes, I'm sure you could generate a schedule using excel.

As a school teacher (Basketball Coach, Football Coach, Running Club Coach etc) I have used Excel and created many a similar fixture.

Rather than us continuing to debate the pros and cons of every detail indefinitely...I think we need to make a decision:

Random schedule or not?
1 Division or not?


As a school leader, I understand acutely the importance for open collaboration and consensus; however, there is also a time when decisions, based on the general consensus, just need to be made.

Last edited by MrJ at 1/11/2025 11:54:31 PM

Home Grown; for teams who like a challenge!
From: MrJ

This Post:
00
324689.222 in reply to 324689.219
Date: 1/11/2025 11:55:28 PM
Swan River Serpents
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
340340
Second Team:
Westopian Tigers
HG League or short HGL is good name.


I was actually liking this one the best. :-)

I will add it to the list.

Thanks, Hadar.

Home Grown; for teams who like a challenge!
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