BuzzerBeater Forums

ginobili- 17055 nba regular season minutes 3651 Playoff minutes

Shaq- 41912 nba regular season minutes 8087 playoff minutes

Even with a big edge in NT minutes, the 30000 (29239 to be exact) extra minutes playing in the best league in the world gives the nod to Shaq for me. Manu played pro in Italy and Argentina I believe, but that's about the same as playing in NCAA d.1 (or was back in the late 80s early 90s).

Just my opinion.

Hell,no.I think NCAA tournament is really overrated as importance.Surely,NCAA is full of talent because is the league where all the young american players play,but top European and South American leagues are much more difficult to play than a legue like NCAA.When you play these kind of league,you play against player that play hundreds of games and learn every kind of tricks to force you to play bad,knows how to make fouls without being called by refs,knows well defensive and offensive tactics.

+1

I said back in the late 80s, early 90s. European competition has improved dramatically. I am only saying what I believe. I played basketball professionally in Spain in 1991, and I can tell you that the level of competition was not always as tough as the UC Berkeley rec gym on a Saturday afternoon. By the time I got to Spain I guess I'd played close to 10000 hours of basketball, so I don't buy your argument that Euoropean players are cagier or know special tricks. In fact, I find it laughable.

sex appeal:
Kurt Thomas --> legendary

alimony:
Shawn Kemp --> legendary

mustache:
Adam Morrison --> legendary

best buddy:
Jack Haley --> legendary

press conference:
Brian Scalabrine -->legendary

part of a rapsong:
A.C. Green --> legendary

brand mark shoe
Stephan Marbury --> pitiful


:-DD

Last edited by WillFreeman at 2/14/2011 2:53:22 AM

Did Ryan Giggs ever played the world cup?

Do you realy believe the best players are in the Dreamteam? lol
same as the NBA teams are playing the best on their roster in the starting line up.

its always the guys with the biggest charisma and the biggest sponsorcontracts and who also can play realy good.
exeption was Chris Mullin. charisma of a shrimp.....

But your right, nowadays NBA players? i dont watch it anymore....

I said back in the late 80s, early 90s. European competition has improved dramatically. I am only saying what I believe. I played basketball professionally in Spain in 1991, and I can tell you that the level of competition was not always as tough as the UC Berkeley rec gym on a Saturday afternoon. By the time I got to Spain I guess I'd played close to 10000 hours of basketball, so I don't buy your argument that Euoropean players are cagier or know special tricks. In fact, I find it laughable.

In the late 80s you could have an argument.Now,NCAA level is much lower than european competition.The talent level in Europe raise drammatically,and the level of experience of NCAA players is much lower than in the past because while in the late 80s players remains in NCAA for long time,so the players that come from the high school have to face against strong players with 2 or 3 years of experience in NCAA...they actually make a year and go to the NBA,the experience they can gain in NCAA is much much lower than in the past
Experience doesn't only come to play against adverasries,but also training against great player and working in the gym.Marcin Gortat gains more experience battling against enormous Howard body's in everyday training than playing against other weaker centers in the league...and the level of training in European basketball is higher than any other league

P.S. In what kind of division do you play in Spain?Because one thing is to play in the ACB,a completely different thing is to play in third or fourth level division

I wouldn't say much lower. My reasoning is just take a look at the league leaders in any European league. Take Italy for example. The vast majority of the leaders in scoring, rebounding, assists, etc. are NCAA nobodies. No offense to them, but it's true. The only areas where the Europeans dominate is in FT% and 3pt %, which fits in with my belief that Europeans are great at unguarded shots.

I played in the second division in Torrelavega at Juventud Florman. I am aware of the difference in quality you point out. Sabonis (greatest big man ever) played in the ACB shortly after I left Spain.

To be honest, and i played at North Carolina, played at Spain (Melilla Baloncesto) Belgium (Hasselt and Antwerp) France (Besancon) Greece (Apollon Patras) and in the Netherlands (Rotterdam and Leiden (86 caps for the National Team) and the answer in the difference between European Basketball and U.S Basketball is the fact that in Europe players are more allround.

Centers can play forward aswell and can shoot balls and even have dribble skills to go one on one to the basket, my time in the states before my knee blew out
The other dif is that US players train so much harder on school or college that Europe will not be able to compete with that in there system with clubs where they train 3 times a week for 6 hours total. Thats one training in the states.
The only reason we have American players in Holland is that there good and the most important one, they are cheap, the majority is than.
We can hire a player for a small amount and if he is not good enough we get another one cause there are a lot of american guys wanting to play in europe if they dont make the NBA.

First of all, sounds like you had an awesome career. Fantastic!
Second, I don't really agree with you about the more all-round thing, judging solely from the Euro players in the NBA. Big guys cannot really handle the ball very well, at least not any better than their US counterparts.

All the European centers I can think of playing right now are
Diaw Mahinmi Krstic Milicic Biedrins Petro Turiaf Pachulia Koufos Big Z Pecovic Elson Gadzuric

None of them strike me as great ball handlers or able to play forward very well, except for Diaw. Maybe they do and can in the European leagues because the defense is not as strong. I don't know. But I disagree with people who make the point about European players being more well-rounded or having more basketball smarts. I think what they are seeing is that European basketball is much much slower than American basketball and much less creative. I'm not trying to bag on European hoops. I loved playing there- pickup and organized- and I think Sabonis is probably the greatest center ever (except maybe Wilt). Now, he was a truly well-rounded basketball player.

Thanks.

Its also about training, when i was in the States i trained 6 hours a day!! When i played in Europe i trained (not with the pro teams i played for) 6 hours a week...
In this six hours i had shot training, rebounding, skills and drills and defence offence games.

From my 8 i played an severall positions which ended at the point/shooting guard in the US. However the training for center and forward gave me a slight advantage on the other guards who spend 6 hours a day on pure guard training.

Its not a question of who is better, its a question on who spends the most time training and in that case the Americans win it by far. But the problem in this is (looking at American players in Holland) that they are burned out befor 30. 24 year old players with busted knees or enkles are no exeption.

And who cares who is better, as long if its fun to watch and fun to play lets go for it....lol

with regards V.Krieger