BuzzerBeater Forums

I have to say that I'm with DarthMaul on this one. There are lots of good ways (Darth mentions a few) to keep teams from getting together to identify players. In my opinion, this reasoning for not having better draft info. on height and age doesn't cut water.

You're right that I can get the player I want on the TL. But that's extra effort that I shouldn't need if I had drafted properly in the first place.

Okay , so why have a draft in the first place if the way the system is supposed to work is that nobody gets who they want and you're expected to buy who you hoped to draft through the transfer list? Why spend up to 40k a week scouting players if you can just save that $480,000 to buy unloved rejects at the beginning of the season anyways?
Why not just directly place all those draftees in the transfer market to begin with instead of going through the motions of a draft?


The whole point of a draft is to be able to select players you need / want to develop to fit your system without having to go to the transfer market / free agent pool, right?

I think the mechanics of the draft are fine: that it's not live, more $$$ on scouting has a payoff, that you pre-select your list and it happens all at once........but can you really say with a straight face that not knowing that the A+ respectable rebounding guy at the top of your list is a 5 ft, 6 inch tall guard is a shame considering the rest of the effort gone into modeling realism in this awesome game?

Wow, I thought I was harsh....
I think if you spend $40 k a week on scouting you'll have a significant number of details to identify the "type" of player you want. The ratings and information details should let you rank the players you prefer......
the idea of "nobody gets who they want" is a bit extreme....
I think adding a couple more details about the players would be nice, but the idea of the draft is to get each team some talent without having to pay for it directly on the transfer market.....

well snuzers if you thought it was extreme, let GM-juice know, because that was his implication. That the player I wished I could target and have a shot to get......that there would be "thousands" of him out on the TL from other owners who got one but didn't want him and put him up for sale. I think the reasoning that I should be happy with how the draft is currently set up, because hey there's always the transfer list is not valid one. Do you agree?

The point of a draft is to have a chance to get who you feel your team needs without going to the transfer list for it. Not just to generically add talent. (thats a legitimate choice for a team to make, but one that shouldnt be forced) One team might want a better point guard prospect, another a center prospect. But IMO knowing only that a player is A- rated with respectable free throw doesn't tell you enough to make an informed decision.

Why is the draft conducted on a league-by-league basis? I can see that you would want to limit it to some number of players and teams, so that the scouting is manageable, but I don't see what are the advantages to drafting among 16 teams in one league, vs. some other number of teams drawn randomly from all leagues.

And why does the draft have to be held at one time? Normally, in a draft you want to consider the results of one round before going on to the next, or even the picks of the other teams in front of you.

You could have one pick per day. People could prepare lists ahead of time, and then make adjustments as time goes on. If they didn't get back for a couple of days before there pick came up, they would still be OK.

And if there was the same information available about all players, they could curse the other owner who nabbed a player they had their eyes on.

Maybe you could keep adding players to the draft pool. Lets say that that there are 10 teams in a draft pool, put 20 players in the pool, and give the teams a week to set their top picks. The draft order could be random, based on some criteria, or a combination of both (ala draft lottery). It could be pre-defined, or decided immediately before each pick.

Let the first team pick a player, and add a new player to the draft pool. Repeat each day as the draft continues.

I see your point Darth, but to say nobody would get who they want is over the top...that's all. Just a broad generalization I'm sure to make you're point.....

I see the merits to your ideas, I really do. But in the framework of an online game, and one in which there is a draft of players somewhat mimicking the NBA style draft, there will have to be some restrictions to keep the playing field somewhat level.....

Although jimrtex posted another novel with some more good points, they all require more user activity that I think the BB's aren't going to support. Anything that gives an edge to someone for being online at a specific time or for logging on over a period of successive days is going to get shot down, and I believe rightly so. Not saying the ideas aren't worthy or good, just hard to implement.....

Similar to my objections with illegal lineups, sometimes the needs of the BB's to make the whole thing work globally, don't translate to specific issues......

There wouldn't be an advantage logging in at certain time, and a fairly small advantage, if any, logging in each day. Let's try this scheme.

Week 1, Day 1 The 48 players are revealed, showing their face, age, height, and best position. Teams have one week to choose 1 skill of 4 different players that is to be revealed.

Week 2. Day 8 One skill of 16 players is revealed to all owners. The teams have a week+ to set their draft order. Each team will have a draft time, 12 hours apart, at which time they will draft the top player on their list. So if you have the 3rd pick, you would only have to rank 3 players, in case the first two teams take the top 2 picks. Perhaps teams could also rank the positions (C, PF, etc), which would be a backup in case some one doesn't want to bother ranking a bunch of players.

Week 3, Day 15 Every 12 hours another player is drafted, and at the same time one additional skill of one player is revealed. Owners with upcoming picks can re-arrange their picks, or include some others in case their picks are being taken. But there really isn't much advantage, unless you ranked too few originally.

Week 4, Day 23, Start of 2nd round. The draft speeds up to one player every 8 hours.

Week 4, Day 28. Start of 3rd round, with one pick every 8 hours/

Week 5, Day 33, Draft is complete.

So the key times would be you 3 draft times. But you wouldn't have to be online. It might help to be online a bit before, just so you can react to other teams picks.

You want to drag it out over five weeks?? I don't like that idea at all.
I think it should be done in three days. Tops. I don't even like that.
I like the way it's set up. I really do. It's one of the things being bandied about that I'm not being a jerk about!!

On another note, someone asked about why the draft needs to be different players for each league. I think it makes sense to have it that way. Although the promotion/relegation concept isn't an NBA construct, and is unique to football around the world and never seen in any US sport, it works for this, although imperfectly. Thus, having the draft apply to only the 16 teams you are playing against makes sense. Even though (unless I'm mistaken) the teams that are promoting or relegating "compete" in the draft against the teams they are leaving behind seems odd, it has to be that way. Combining leagues could create an imbalance in "fairness"......since what logic would be used to matchup leagues? Would the top division compete with half the d.II's? Which half? That's the problem

Again, I think anything that increases the complexity of programming and functionality will get shot down, regardless of how brilliant an idea it is. With teams coming and going, simplicity sometimes needs to be the driving force.......not that it's the best way.

I think what Darth means, and my contention as well, is that players are unable to do anything to get the players that they want. If I want to draft inside guys there's nothing that lets me do that. I have as much of a chance at getting them as I do at getting all guards. This, in no way, mimics reality.

I'm okay with randomness since the draft is never a sure thing and should never be. But real life randomness is in the quality of players you are drafting not in the position or height of the players. I like the idea of telling your scouts to focus on a certain type of player. That way most of the information that you have gathered will be along the lines of your team's training strategy.

As it is developing a long term strategy isn't viable since there is a once per season crap shoot that could derail your strategy in one fell swoop. If I spend money on scouting why can't these scouts provide me with actually useful information?

Thanks Batman. Yes that is a very good summary of the point I am trying to make.

"Real life randomness is in the quality of the prospects, not in the position or height".

As I mentioned earlier, I too like the idea of telling your scouts to focus on a certain kind of player. I think the ability to tell them to focus on PF or PG or whatever (and be able to change that focus each week) will go a long way towards giving teams the ability to institute a long term strategy for their team, which is in a nutshell, the main concern I have with the draft as it is.

I think what Darth means, and my contention as well, is that players are unable to do anything to get the players that they want. If I want to draft inside guys there's nothing that lets me do that. I have as much of a chance at getting them as I do at getting all guards. This, in no way, mimics reality.

I'm okay with randomness since the draft is never a sure thing and should never be. But real life randomness is in the quality of players you are drafting not in the position or height of the players. I like the idea of telling your scouts to focus on a certain type of player. That way most of the information that you have gathered will be along the lines of your team's training strategy.

As it is developing a long term strategy isn't viable since there is a once per season crap shoot that could derail your strategy in one fell swoop. If I spend money on scouting why can't these scouts provide me with actually useful information?

I do understand the point. I really do. The problem is balancing the solution with the simplicity required. For whatever reason, some people feel their self esteem is directly tied to their perceived competence in these online games. That is why some people will go to lengths to find a way to cheat the system. Multiple teams, sharing draft info, whatever it takes to make 'em feel better about themselves.

I don't have the answer, but there should be a way to give us extra information about the draftees.....I agree it would be helpful to be able to draft a big man in the first round, a good passing/driving PG in the 2nd and a 3 pt shooter in the 3rd, but I don't know how that can be done in this environment. I'm a question guy, not an answer guy!!

As I mentioned earlier, the only means we have now to identify players is for those showing their best skill. That is the only way to identify, barely, what type of player or what position they may play. Not so good, I know.

Edited 10/15/2007 6:04:55 PM by snuzers