BuzzerBeater Forums

I'm saying that Rose simply has no consistent scoring teammate, a Boozer and Deng are inconsistent underachievers. That's no excuse ,it's a fact. That can easily be proven. You are pretty much saying blaming coaching/ pointing flaws in KDs game/implying that OKC's players aren't listening to him. Those are excuses. You can't really prove those things.
Yes there were only 4 PGs with 9 or more assists, that's why they are the elite passers in the game. There are only few of the elite. 8 assists is solid but not anything special. (By the way, a guy like KD can alone give his PG 4 or 5 assists).
I don't want argue every point you have but I believe Rose a better PG than Westbrook. Rose is in a much tougher situation and still makes better decisions than a guy who has a top 3 player in the league as a teammate. If I made a list for PGs it would look something like this
1)Williams/Rose
2)Williams/Rose/CP3
3)Rose/CP3
4) Westbrook
5) Rondo/Nash/JKidd/someone else
That being said, I respect and understand your opinions.

Fair enough, we won't see eye to eye. I think you can possibly call Boozer an underachiever, but I think Deng does what about is expected. He's not a superstar nor paid like one. As for Noah being equivalent of Ibaka/Perk....you are giving Perk too much credit. Perk is one of the worst offensive options that actually has a starting job. Deng is far superior to anyone other than KD on the Thunder's supporting cast and so is Boozer. KD is superior to both of them obviously. You can include Harden if you want, but the majority of the time he is on the floor Westbrook is not.

He was required to do heavy lifting in the playoffs and could not get it done against a good team. He made bad decisions just as RW did and often times showed that he wasn't the MVP.

Judging by your list you are a DWill guy. As a true PG I would go CP3 then DWill and then the other two. Obviously they are all studs and you could ask NBA GM's around the league and get different orders of the 4 as well...so there probably isn't a "right" answer...just an opinion supported by the facts as you see them and also by what you think is more important. I appreciate the dialogue as well as your input and opinions.

Last edited by Stauder at 6/21/2011 8:05:04 PM

Agree about Perk. Purely a defensive guy IMO. Boozer didn't show up as much as I thought he would in the playoffs, and the Heat definitely exploited that. That said, I think Westbrook is better than Deng. Deng is better defensively, but Westbrook's defense isn't horrible. I think Deron would be better if he didn't have to give the ball to Lopez and Kirilenko (in Utah).

I'm a DWill guy, mainly because I'm an Illinois guy. :-)
Fine, Deng isn't really an underachiever, it's that he just doesn't consistently bring what the Bulls need. Okay maybe I overrate Perk but I really feel that Noah isn't all that and he is about as good as Ibaka.
Deng and Boozer maybe be better than the rest of the thunder's supporting cast but it isn't always quantity, it's quality. I'd take KD on my team over BOTH Deng and Boozer.
Rose did all the heavy lifting when it mattered the most. He couldn't beat three NBA all stars by himself....

What are you talking about. Deng was one of the most constistant players in the league. He always gets 17-20 points but Boozer was a B-U-M. I watched every single bulls game last season.

Boozer was a bum? I respect that you watch all of the bulls games, but the guy scored 17.5 (51% fg's) and had 9.6 boards. Not too many guys are 18/10 guys. I'm not saying he is a superstar, but that seems like a solid stat line...

17-20 pts isn't really enough when you have no other scoring options other than Rose.
Bozzer's a Bum? no. Underachiever(especially during playoffs),yes.

Last edited by Coolbobj at 6/22/2011 6:11:15 AM

In the regular season the top 3 starters for the bulls averaged 60 pts (deng, boozer, rose) and the top 3 starters for the Thunder averaged 59.5 pts (ibaka, russ, kd). The other two starters for the Thunder combined for 10 pts per game and Noah had 11.7 pts by himself. You can argue James Harden if you want, but he only averaged 12.2 ppg and like I have been saying he isn't on the floor at the same time as Russ and KD most of the time.

Before they traded Jeff Green it would probably be different, but it's no secret that once they traded him their offense didn't flow well but the defense got 10 points better. I would say 17-20 pts for Boozer is enough when Deng is scoring almost identical in the regular season. The playoffs were not kind to Boozer for sure though. I know you would trade Boozer/Deng for KD, and I think anyone would, BUT then you have Noah starting and scoring 12 points as well which tips the scales in my opinion. You are naturally harder on the bulls as I'm guessing you are a Bulls fan and I know people have a tendency of scrutinizing their own players more.

It's funny because in the playoffs Rose and Westbrook almost shot identical percentages...Rose just shot more. KD actually shot more shots in the playoffs than he did in the regular season and he scored less. Interesting...KD underperformed as well even though he got the ball more. Everyone for some reason thought he didn't get the ball enough, but nobody said that during the regular season did they? I just think the media decided to throw Russ under the bus because they had to have something to talk about in the playoffs. Sure he needs to mature as a PG, but the rest of the thunder team and the coach have to do the same thing.

yes. he is a bum... he gets injured for most of the season. and when he is playing, he has many terrible flagrant fouls especially in playoffs.

I'll allow you to live in your fantasy land. Enjoy.

Yes, he is a player teams would like to have. But look at his salary. This is is salary over the next couple of years. Is he worth that much money? NO also, another point worth bringing up is that Taj Gibson played almolst as well if not better than Boozer in les minutes. In late game situations, taj Gibson is usually playing. Is that what you want from the highest payed player on your team? NO. He also only played in 59 games. When you Carlso boozer, and the other team is allready double teaming Rose(which happens sometimes), he is supposed to play better than the way he does.

You also said that 17 ppg is a solid statline. Well during the playoffs, he only averaged 12.6. Im sure youl agreee that this is not such an amazing statline for your hihest paid player, and the second (and sometimes third) option on a team. His salary is below.

Player: Carlos boozer salary


$14,400,000

$13,500,000

$15,000,000

$15,300,000

$16,800,000




Last edited by shoe lover at 6/25/2011 12:27:50 AM