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Thanks for the reply.

Taking aside how uncommon and hard it is to build such a team and extra salary expenses required, purely tactically, based on the data you provided i would really like your expert opinion:

Do you believe that the aforementioned player(in LI tactic) would function better for his team against man to man, with JS/JR 19-13 and IS 15 or like he was 18/10 and 15?

Since we're in the process of adding skills for conversational purposes, would you prefer the same player with 19/13 (plus four)outside and 15 inside or keeping the 18-10 outside and going (two up)17 inside?

I'm no expert, I'm just a guy who loves the game and tests a lot (not very recently though). I hope you didn't mean that in a sarcastic way.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that as long as guy's IS is high enough, I'm fine also with JS 19/JR 13. And we are talking about PG/SG only. It gives you lots of flexibility, as you can play him at PF for Patient for occasional surprise.
When I have time, I'll brake down the shots from PG and SG from Dyonisius against 2/3 and compare those to Mloty's opponents, playing against 2-3. The main difference I'm sure to find out if high IS.

High IS makes guards go for dunks and tough inside shots, which are much more difficult to defend than driving layups. That and high JS/JR is the main difference between Mloty's opponents and Dyonisius players.

Last edited by Koperboy at 12/20/2013 11:38:09 AM

Οk man, thanks.
Looking forward to the comparison data and your conclusions.

look inside with 19 shooters from 1-3 would suck, it would make your small forward a jumpshooter and you dont want that. Also shooting is really expensive at the 3 position.

18 for PG/SG and 15 for SF would have done it here. Or even better passing.

Yes, I was too hasty with SF spot, so 16 should be enough. 19/13 for 1-2 position because 18/10 was enough against "normal" 2-3, but Mloty's is much more advanced in OD compartment.

@Mamuwalde

Please, give a definition of "X tactic works".

I'm not sure what you are asking...?

@maddoghellas: I forgot to add one thing. In last few seasons the salary efficiency trend on bigs focused on lowering ID and RB (15-16) in favour of JS and especially IS. So when you play 2-3, it doesn't help much against PG/SG with IS 15/16 when they go to dunk the ball.

I don't know what works. I never said I know everything, but you act like I did. I know neither 2-3 nor M2M work against LI right now. Maybe 2-3 like Mloty's works with added SB, but unfortunately we don't have any data to work from yet. Right now LI offense is so good I can only work on the same thing everyone is working - learning how to perfect it better than the opponent becauseno defense won't stop it. So every game is a race of who's got the better offense and who can foul out their opponent's players before their own do.

So far the only countermeasure to LI is Patient, but your team has to be built very specifically - just like today's LI teams. But a team designed only to beat LI can be easily stopped by a good 3-2 since it's so narrow it doesn't have any other plan of attack. For now I don't think 3-2 from Dyionisius or Mloty can stop well-built Patient team because they would be at a disadvantage regarding Rebounding. However, a well-built Patient team takes seasons to build and so far I don't see anybody with such a team yet.

Unfortunately I didn't have many games to work from, but I hope I'll get more in next B3. I took the data from these three games:

Dyonisius against 2-3 (58832734)
Pirulos (semifnals) against Mloty's 2-3 (65406236)
猛牛(finals) against Mloty's 2-3 (65653784)

I took a closer look at what Dyonisius guards are doing against 2-3,and then what Mloty's opponents' guards are doing against 2-3. 8 (6) midrange means the player had 8 midrange attempts (jumpers) and hit 6 of them.

Dyonisius (vs Inbarim)
PG: 8 (6) midrange, 3 (3) driving layups, 3 (1) long range
SG: 5 (1) midrange, 5 (4) driving layups, 3 (3) inside shots, 2 (0) long range

Myloty semifinals
PG: 12 (9) midrange, 1 (0) driving layup, 3 (0) inside shots, 1 (1) long range
SG: 8 (4) midrange, 3 (1) driving layup, 1 (1) inside shot, 2 (1) long range

Myloty finals
PG: 4 midrange (2), 3 (1) driving layup, 3 (2) inside shots, 3 (0) long range
SG: 6 (3) midrange, 4 (1) driving layup, 1 (1) inside shot, 2 (1) long range

So the thing that sticks out is Dyo's guards were much more succesfull at driving layups than Mloty's opponents. This goes to show Mloty's 2-3 is much better constructed than Inbarim's. So what would Dyo's guards have to have if they faced Mloty's opponents? Mloty's 2-3 would take away their driving layups, so Dyo's guards would have to rely on midrange and long range shots more. Ergo, more JS/JR I advocated in first place.

What bothered me a bit is all three missed inside shots by PG in semifinals. PG was Lanzuela, a terrific Spanish NT player, who is built in the same way as Dyo's PG (lots of IS), so he should score on those inside attempts. I guess he was having a bad day due to game shape or enthusiasm. Unfortunately I have to guess since I have so little data to work from. But you can see Lanzuela's stats are similar or even better than Dyo's PG; he took almost no driving layups in favour of better inside looks, and he took a lot of midrange shots because he was very good at that. Unfortunately he was one of two only good offensive players and they defended horribly (Mloty's FG was 52-88 in that game), so pirulos had no chance there.

I think Mloty would lose in the finals if his oppponent's SG was similar to Lanzuela, because he would take more inside shots in favour of driving layups.



Last edited by Koperboy at 12/21/2013 12:18:15 AM

Pirulos had a huge hit on GS on Reinares (starting spain SF) and a very tough injury for that game. I think it would have been another story were those conditions different.

But I do not know if pirulos would have won that final, in the end this is a matchup game and he was not as suited to play 猛牛 as he was to play Mloty.

I was following Pirulos as well, and I thought they would win against Mloty Stargard. But they had an injury so I changed to Mloty.

Pirulos always had good results, compared to game ratings. No idea why, maybe more secondary skills? Couldn't bother to check transfer records, or players history..