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I think the fact that their easier to train is why the guard training is heavier. I'm surprised the difference is so big, but if it's harder to train guards, I'd rather have control of it, than rely on someone else to create the player I need. Whereas good big men are pretty common on the transfer market.

That last sentence is utter crap. The reason big men aren't worth a damn is that nobody bothers to train more than 3 skills on them, and somehow thinks they're worth something.

If, on the other hand, you search the TL for players with IS/ID/RB of 13+ and DR of 10+, there are precisely 15 players currently on the market, and only 10 of them have passing above mediocre. Of those, only six have FT skill above inept. The average asking price for those six players is well over $3.3 million.

I just wanted to throw-in my two cents of agreement, only instead of DR, if you search the TL for Cs who have IS/ID/RB of 13+ and PS/OD of 8+, you find exactly zero.

OD isn't as hard to find (there are 10) but only 2 of those have better than inept passing (none better than average).

Conversely, there are 8 with >/= 8 PA, and only 3 of those have OD better than inept (again, none better than average).

Everyone keeps talking about building SFs, and nobody is talking about building PFs.

That last sentence is utter crap.

Easy.

What you're talking about are great big men, and I would agree entirely. I'm currently looking for the player you're talking about and it hasn't been easy.

But understand that you're in DII, I'm in DIV along with the majority of the people in America who are in IV or lower. The "good big men" you're looking are far different than what others are looking for. So, in your personal case, you are absolutely right, and I should have been more detailed explaining my personal case. But, in DIV a player with IS/ID/RB of 12-13+ and 5 passing would be more than serviceable.

That last sentence is utter crap.

Easy.

What you're talking about are great big men, and I would agree entirely. I'm currently looking for the player you're talking about and it hasn't been easy.

But understand that you're in DII, I'm in DIV along with the majority of the people in America who are in IV or lower. The "good big men" you're looking are far different than what others are looking for. So, in your personal case, you are absolutely right, and I should have been more detailed explaining my personal case. But, in DIV a player with IS/ID/RB of 12-13+ and 5 passing would be more than serviceable.

It's serviceable in II as well, because there aren't many choices available. My best center has 5 PA and no skill above 13 (which is why I'm training a better one). But I wasn't making a point specific to divisions.

Managers in BB as a whole, for far too long, have trained only three skills on big men. Sure, there's the occasional guy with some SB, but it doesn't give enough return for the salary. There are guys with JS or DR trained up a ways, but the vast majority of big men available in BB have but three skills.

Nobody would buy a guard who had only JS, DR and OD (which may be serviceable in D4, I don't know), yet we bemoan the fact that centers with only three skills sell for next to nothing. Part of the fault lies in how secondaries have trained in the past, as they are more rewarding to guard trainers than big man trainers (quick, name a guard training that also trains handling; now name a big man training that also trains handling), but the rest of the fault lies with the managers doing the training.

The only thing that will level the playing field between guard trainers and big man trainers is for those who train bigs to simply build better players. There's a finite amount of money in the game, and you can't spend it all on guards and SFs.

I agree with what your saying. But I don't think that your really talking about the statement I made about there being more good big men on the transfer market, as much as you are venting about how there aren't enough big men with the skills we all want.

Like you said, no one is really training balanced big men, thus the unbalanced big man doesn't really have as much disadvantage comparatively to competition. So, my statement of there being plenty of good big men on the transfer market, while being and flawed and certainly not ideal, isn't untrue.

In your experience, do you see teams who are training balanced big men succeed at a higher rate than those training guards?

In your experience, do you see teams who are training balanced big men succeed at a higher rate than those training guards?

I don't know if the former exists.

I tried training balanced big men and I am not doing well.

for example:

Jump Shot: strong Jump Range: strong
Outside Def.: strong Handling: average
Driving: proficient Passing: proficient
Inside Shot: prolific Inside Def.: prominent
Rebounding: prolific Shot Blocking: awful
Stamina: proficient Free Throw: prominent

The problems is the salary catches up too quickly over the seasons.

guards still dominate. in about a season, I will turnover the team and focus on guards instead.

I tried training balanced big men and I am not doing well.

for example:

Jump Shot: strong Jump Range: strong
Outside Def.: strong Handling: average
Driving: proficient Passing: proficient
Inside Shot: prolific Inside Def.: prominent
Rebounding: prolific Shot Blocking: awful
Stamina: proficient Free Throw: prominent

The problems is the salary catches up too quickly over the seasons.

Wha?? That player has a salary of ~17k. You have a 200k+ guy on the roster, you'd think 17k would be a walk in the park for you.

guards still dominate. in about a season, I will turnover the team and focus on guards instead.

OK, if the guy above is American, sell him to me when you do this.

the 200K is also pretty decently well rounded.

the 17K guy plays real well against weaker teams, but at DII level, it really shows.

The problem I am highlighting though is the 200K and 70K guys had they salaries bloat (they are both well-balanced) from the big-men related skills... and over the 3-4 season of training them, I could not add good guards because of this.

guard skills bloat slower, so you could adopt a 3-5 year training plan, but still be competitive, save more money, and then buy cheap big men as fillers closer to the playoffs.

by the way, for that 17k guy... "most similar have been selling for around $ 200 000 to $ 250 000".. not the best ROI.

The problem I am highlighting though is the 200K and 70K guys had they salaries bloat (they are both well-balanced) from the big-men related skills... and over the 3-4 season of training them, I could not add good guards because of this.

guard skills bloat slower, so you could adopt a 3-5 year training plan, but still be competitive, save more money, and then buy cheap big men as fillers closer to the playoffs.

You just wrote out the solution to your own problem. Train all of the guard skills first, with the possible exception of JS, and train the C skills at the end. One he changes his BP to C/PF, all the guard skills (except JS) become free.

by the way, for that 17k guy... "most similar have been selling for around $ 200 000 to $ 250 000".. not the best ROI.

I think we both know he'll sell for much more than that.

makes sense... but then you will need to buy other players to play at C and PF... and support those salaries to be competitive, or tank completely...

Ugh. Why can't it just be easier.

Honestly, the developers of this game did a wonderful job making it as challenging as it is, while still making it additively entertaining. I wish I had gotten started much earlier in its existence.