BuzzerBeater Forums

id like to hear more about this.
Just to clarify, i believe he is saying that a driving layup shot itself. .... in other words, what contributes to a players driving FG%.

- personally for me i always thought DR + IS = layup/dunk off of a drive. (although sometimes pull up JS? Not sure). Either way, I think a drive almost always leads to a shot inside the key, to which IS is going to be used? So either way, IS has to be used?

If IS has no direct influence on driving layups, then how would you determine one players ability to make layups over another? Purely on driving?

ok well thats interesting. I dont have any stats to back it up, but in general, ive always noticed that, guards in particular, will shoot a lower FG% (overall FG%) if their IS is lower.
And i always attributed that to drive-type shots being missed.

So im kinda agreeing with Nachtmahr on this one. ive actually got Game analyzer pumping out some games into excel, once i get to 5 or so games, ill have a look at 2 players who have dramatically different inside shot, and see if their driving FG% is different. (ill see if this gives me enough data as well).

So yer, ill be back in 10 mins with some data!

ok so one thing i thought needs some clarification is what actually constitutes a drive.

It was being suggested that a dunk was or was not a driving based shot. In Game Anlyzer, 'Dunk' is just dunk. doesn't give anymore info.
looking at one game, the following are dunks.

1) S. Yiwen (A) gets off a great pass to S. Godfrey (A). S. Godfrey (A) throws down a powerful two-handed dunk. Scored.
2) B. Perman (H) goes up strong for a dunk. Scored.
3) T. Trinh (H) throws down a powerful two-handed dunk
4) Quick drop-step move leads to a two-handed dunk by M. Wassersztrum (H) off of a nice pass from R. Simmons (H). Scored.
5) I. Elias (H) goes up for a dunk in a crowd

So pretty much the first option there is off a pass, so no driving there. 4th option above is also off a pass, although i think the quick drop step move sometimes comes without a pass - either way this doesn't involve driving (?)
The 2nd, 3rd and 5th options above though are all ambiguous? Going for a dunk in a crowd to me suggests a big drive from outside and dunking over a crowd?
Moultinho doesn't clarify in his game analyzer. Dunk is just dunk. and its a close range shot.

So the problem i see here, is that if you treat some of the above items as driving, then your end-stats may be different than if you don't.

Does anyone have any clarification about the above named 'dunk' items and why they do or don't involve driving?

Anyways for my little stats im about to do, ill assume dunks are NOT using driving.

ok i agree with that also.

Dunks are definitely non-driving based shots.

So just to debunk a few things ive said previously.

- There are no dunks off of a drive.
- DR + IS is most likely used as a combination in the formula for calculating shot % during a drive. (Although JoeMaverick is providing some evidence to counter this, however my own anecdotal evidence suggests that IS will increase the chances of a driving-based shot going in. )

and just to backtrack a bit as well regarding the Jump Range Jump shot formula, my initial formula suggested
(JS + <distance_factor>*JR) - I dont think this is wrong actually? maybe a multiplication than an addition? Doesn't really matter if its applied as a factor in the end formula?

After listening to Nachtmahr, there is probably a slight change to that. something like:
(JS * <distance_factor>) * ((JR)*<distance_factor>)
That is, Jump shot is affected by distance, regardless.... then this result is applied against the JR which is also affected by distance.
There might be some weighting applied as well, to reduce the actual effectiveness that the JR skill applies here. But thats always going to be impossible to tell.

The end result of a guy with 15JS and 15JR is a 'score' of 56.25, compared to a guy who has atrocious JR, who would get a score of 3.75

That actually seems about right. Listed below are the scores, for a guy with 15 JS and then JR from Atrocious through to 15
1(Atroc) - 3.75
3 - 11.25
5 - 18.75
7 - 26.25
9 - 33.75
11 - 41.25
13 - 48.75
15(marv) - 56.25

Seems not too bad really!

IS hasn't more impact on a driving layup than JR. The reason behind that is that it will be easier for a good outside shooter to score a driving layup than for a player who is only able to drive (for example).

I think i know what you are saying and I kind of agree with you somewhat.

What you are suggesting is - that if a player has lots of different skills, and lots of different abilities, this gives him a vast array of basketball weaponary to use and as such, he will be a better player at everything.
eg: Because he can shoot the 3point shot really well, his defender will defend him really close, which gives him a better chance of driving past him and scoring on driving layups. Or because he acn hit the 3pt shot but is playing at PF, he will hit more 3pt shots because the defender will have poor OD etc etc.

I think logically, this happens in real life. and i recently suggested this somewhere, and i think that, from a 'shot selection' perspective, the GE will try and pick this player more because he will have more mis-matches to expose. And i think we can discuss this later on, because the way that the GE 'selects' which player is going to shoot will be a very complicated thing.

But if we were to just talk purely about the isolated situation of, two players, performing layups, with the exact same defender, then surely IS makes a difference to % that one will make over the other?