BuzzerBeater Forums

Congratulations, GM-Enzo!

It is great to see the kind of success that a HG team can have.

I'm looking forward to starting the journey.

This is a question for Wagner...

...how fairs things with creating a league for HG teams? I have read through the thread and there has been some great discussions. Are we any closer to either 1) creating a league that we control; or 2) having a league that BB has set up for us?

I'm hoping a HG League will eventuate...

...maybe in time for my HG arrival in Season 68

Thanks for your messages!

To the first one - I didn't realize you're such an experienced and apparently very knowledgeable manager, so therefore I crowded the forum with mainly basic tips. But maybe, just maybe, someone will get something out of them. Maybe not, but that's life. ;P

As for BBHG league, frankly I'm completely unaware of possible discussion about it that takes place out of Buzzerbeater forums as I don't use Discord. As you can see, what becomes to BBHG league it's been somewhat silent here in the forums lately. If you or anyone else happens to know if discussion about it has taken place in Discord, please let me know.
As it stands right now - and like you already noticed by reading through the thread - there are 8 of us currently interested in participating in the league.

What becomes to amount of interested teams, the current number (8) is already quite nice, and on the other hand I'm somewhat disappointed that there still aren't more of us (as there are actually even some more HG teams in BB than the list at the 1st page of this thread mentions). Having said that, it's more important to have dedicated teams to participate, than having plenty of teams that wouldn't be willing to take the trouble to follow through with their obligations to the BBHG league (for instance, to arrange weekly matches as planned).

Like I mentioned couple of times before, nothing would restrict us to begin the league as soon as we want, as already that amount of teams would be quite decent. Perhaps not optimal (as some tough decisions would need to be made when deciding what kind of league system to use and how many would qualify for playoffs, or then all 8 teams would need to be granted a spot for playoffs, which on the other hand would make regular season a bit less meaningful...like you can see with this one example only, there are so many considerations to be made to make it optimal... having said that, optimal is a relative term and sometimes it's just better to get things rolling anyway instead of waiting for everything to be "optimal").

I have presented few of the possible (of practically tens of possible) league systems here in the forum, but apart from Elan Demars' manager demars, not many remarks/comments have been made about them. So I have no idea if participating teams would for instance prefer the most traditional possible league system, or rather more inventive/interesting one.

As for BB staff/owners interest of taking an administrative role of this BuzzerBeater Homegrown-league, I honestly don't have any clue about that. Like I mentioned/hinted in this forum multiple times (I believe), I wouldn´t mind see BB owners taking control/administrative role here, as it would free of us of lot of manual work (most work would fall to the league commissioner though, so not that big of a task for a regular team that decides to participate!) and would ensure everything goes as planned within the planned envelope time wise. So I don't know if BB owners even read this thread as I haven't had any personal BB-mail from them about it, and as you can see AFAIK they haven't commented anything to this thread either.

So to your question 1): mentally we are closer to establishing the league, as personally I keep entertaining different possibilities (in terms of league systems, awakening more interest towards the league, etc.) and thinking what could be made to make the league as good, interesting and fair to all as ever possible.
Also, a full set of rules for the BBHG are still to be established.
Firstly, if we keep this league "on our hands", I think we need to have some sanctions/penalties if you don't stick with the rules (sanctions could differ from one type of violation to another).
Second, I guess many "typical real life rules" would suit this BBHG league well, however I'd like to see couple of additions. We could for instance consider changing the regular season team rankings determining order slightly, etc..

Good choice, as it will be next to impossible to defend effectively against your (and against elpupes') team, as we can never visually identify which one of your players was the best 3 point shooter of the team, or who's the one who´s phenomenal in rebounds, etc... ;)

PART 1

Thanks for your response, Wagner.

I guess in time, when enough managers are eager, and contributing their opinions and wishes regarding the format and setup of a league, it will happen.

Eight is a good start and, as you say, enough to get started. I will certainly be joining you all at the start of next season.

Here in Australia back around Season 14 to 20 (can't remember exactly which seasons or for how long it ran for), many Aussie teams came together to informally create a large Private League called the 'Fishbowl'. It was broken into two divisions from memory (Div I & II teams in one division, and Div III teams and weak or tanking other teams in the second division). This ensured fair competition. Before the competition was started teams would let the administrator know that they were playing and the strength and even aspirations of their team.

The two divisions were discussed and agreed upon and a Fishbowl 'administrator' (someone who put up their hand for the job - which was rotated each new series). The format was agreed by all. The administrator would also maintain a thread keeping all teams, and those not playing but interested, up-to-date on how the games went, the results, mvps etc. This included keeping a ladder. It opened up a lot of conversations and was a pretty cool Aussie form for some time. I certainly learned a lot from some of the more experienced managers at that time, most who have long gone.

I don't recall the exact reason why it eventually stopped, but it eventually faded into history.

I mention this competition as I think a Home-Grown Private League would be the best format to do what has been discussed here: create a BBHG League. Of course, the problem with this, as you have previously noted, is the need for managers to purchase supporter. This is not a viable option. Managers, and as a result, their HG teams, should not be excluded because they haven't paid for supporter.

However, a 'Pick Up' version of what I have discussed, with an 'Administrator' (you to begin with? Demar?)...or several...who can create, maintain and run this competition might be required to get this up and running.

Although I am not going to be fully HG until the start of next season, I am keen to help out in setting up this league. Between those of us willing to do so, I'm sure we can make this happen.

Here are my thoughts on this, or a tentative plan if you like:

1. We quickly decide on the name of this league. Or we just go with your original suggestion (I think) - BuzzerBeater Home-Grown League (BBHGL). We could even field a few suggestions, create a poll, then lock it in.
We can do this here in this forum.

2. We then create a new forum using the name of this league as the title. While the forum we are currently conversing in is great, it will fill up pretty quickly. The need to have some organisation early would be beneficial.

This newly created forum would be 100% for the new league.

3. In this new forum, we would:

A - Give a brief summary of what the league is and the requirements to be able to compete in it.
B - Provide rules and consequences given the 'hidden' aspect (Pick Up Games) of it and the expectations of managers who compete in this league.
C - Explain what the thread will be used for, who the first season's administrator(s) is/are and what the thread will be used for.

To be continued (word count low)...

SEE BELOW FOR PART 2

PART 2

BRIEF SUMMARY
This would need to state succinctly what a 'Home-Grown' (HG) team is and isn't, so that any manager reading it will know whether their team qualifies to play, or if not, what they would have to do to become a HG team. This summary could include links to managers (who volunteered) who are willing to answer and assist new managers in becoming HG. The summary could explain the purpose of this league to engage interest etc.

RULES & CONSEQUENCES
An explanation of how to use the 'pick up' (PU) tokens (for those who do not understand it) would be extremely valuable given that it is key to the league functioning. This would include explaining when these tokens are given by BB, how many, and how managers competing in this league will have to ensure they have enough of them to play each week (not using them in other games). Once a clear understanding of the use of tokens is ensured, only then can a manager be prepared to play in this league.

This section would need to explain the 'round-robin' process or whatever schedule/ladder/format decided on and how teams will challenge other teams using the PU tokens. Clear explanations on how this process, including who provides the games' results and to whom will be necessary.

NOMINATIONS
An explanation can be given here for managers, so they know what to do if, after reading all the information provided, they wish to join this league and accept the processes, including the consequences for failing to adhere to the league protocols. (I might just note here, Wagner, that while we can put in place consequences for those who 'deliberately' play unfairly [eg. not HG players etc], there will be times when managers make mistakes and simply warning or nothing at all might be the best reactions)

A clear date for teams to nominate by would have to be given and firmly adhered to, to ensure the league actually gets going. Those teams who miss the deadline would then be added to a list and play in the following season of the BBHGL etc.

WHAT TO EXPECT
The name of the administrator(s) can be given here and what to expect from them and this form. This might include stating that a weekly ladder will be maintained, problems that arise dealt with, and possibly even a MVP voting system could be run (this could be complex or simple). It could simply involve the 3 highest player ratings from each team receive a 3-2-1 vote or be far more complex. Obviously a more complex version will require a lot of debate and discussion in order to finalise. Again, the use of MVP votes is only a suggestion.


This forum would likely naturally evolve into a place where---if it becomes successful---HG managers will discuss and banter over game results, manager views etc.

I know what I have written here and above is far from comprehensive but I thought I'd keep the discussion rolling along...

[...]
Eight is a good start and, as you say, enough to get started. I will certainly be joining you all at the start of next season.

Here in Australia back around Season 14 to 20 [...] a large Private League called the 'Fishbowl'.

Thank you very much for "keeping the discussion rolling" as you stated yourself - this was one of the best, thoughtful, well structured and thorough reply I've ever received in BuzzerBeater (during 50+ seasons), so I'm really looking forward to your contributions in future as well! This kind of reply of yours also deserves a more thorough answer than what I have time to write right now, so I just wanted to say I'll certainly give a better and more thorough response when I have bit more time.

Now I understand better what the "Bring back the Fishbowl." under each of your forum post means, and similarly I'd like to make BuzzerBeater Home-grown league something that people in BB community recognize/know, remember, and of which existence they've come to expect in a long term. I'm in a BB for a long term, and do intend to stick with the BBHG league for the whole duration of it's existence (given that my team will be eligible for the league, and that would likely be the case in the future as well).

I guess in time, when enough managers are eager, and contributing their opinions and wishes regarding the format and setup of a league, it will happen.

Theoretically/optimally/in ideal world yes, but in practice I'm afraid that's not completely likely to happen here in BB forums - like I mentioned I have no idea if discussion is taking place in Discord about this. I would also like to think this way, but practice has shown me (in "real world") that sometimes things just need to be taken forward by some(one) decisively, and then (and sometimes only then, when certain point in the process is being achieved) things will perhaps gather more interest/discussion, and discussion will start to flow. (Having said that, I've enjoyed the activity here in the Homegrown teams forum lately, but what I mean that not much discussion about BBHG league has taken place recently).

What I mean for instance, that I have tried to include in my lengthy messages some propositions/open questions already, but haven't received many responses. So in that sense I could conclude, that oh well, it seems this league isn't gathering enough interest, I'll just let it be, it's not the proper time for it (now, but maybe never). But I'm not willing to take such a negative take on this, especcially as there are already 8 of us interested (9 starting next season including you!) so I'll instead try to keep up the discussion about it. I think one of the ways would be to send informative private message about this league to most if not all to the teams in the beginning of the thread, but I haven't done that at least yet. I'm sure many homegrown teams that are on that list follow this thread quite regularly, so I guess they've been able to see what's been discussed about this league in this thread, and they've seen me ask multiple times that please announce your interest here in this forum or as a private message to me should you be interested in joining the BBHG league. So far I have received 1 private message (team announcing interest), so my BB mail won't be jammed if I'd get 1 (or 10) more of such replies, in fact I'd welcome them. :D
Some might also not be very familiar with English language, so that could be an issue for some.

As for league formats and such, I've also mentioned that I could write about possible league formats (in slightly more thorough manner than in previous post) should people (preferably more than 1 ;P) be interested in hearing about them - no response. And as far as league formats go, one option would be to present different options here in the forum and ask each committed participant what they'd prefer. In my case not with a questionnaire though as I'm not a supporter..

Hi,

I am interesting to join HG league from next season(68).

After few seasons in II div(last ~2 seasons were hard) I want to focus on training only HG players.
Need to sell two players(starters) and we good to go.

I drafted few nice players in recent years, right now this is what I have HG(with possible positions):

PG/SG:
(54188312) 19yo allstar, backup PG(current salary 8k, target ~23k) -nice PG skills after draft
(53877178) 20yo superstar, future starter PG(current salary 16k, target maybe ~65k or more) best skills I've seen after draft(19yo)
(53210988) 21yo MVP, future starter PG/SG(current salary 14k, target maybe ~90k) basic MVP
SF:
(52548745) 23yo MVP, future starter SF(current salary 27k, target maybe ~100k) basic MVP
(52882440) 23yo HoF, backup forward(current salary 18k, target max 40k-he will be only sub due to low skills after draft) lower skills=sub forward
PF:
(50847369) 28yo superstar, starter PF(salary 72k, starter till 35yo) trained from beggining
(53551791) 20yo HoF, future starter PF/C(current salary 9k, target ~120k?)
C:
(51166603) 28yo, MVP, starter C(salary 98k, starter till 35yo, maybe 36yo) trained from beggining
(47748859) 37yo HoF, backup C/PF(salary 37k, decreasing skills) trained from beggining might be hard to keep him forever in rotation
deep reserve:
(53877157) 20yo PF(nr 10 in rotation, nice skills for 6k)

Soon salaries will be: >300k with increase around 30k each season
Target salaries: 550k(maybe more depending on situation)

Looking good, Paul George.

I'm sure the guys will add your name to the list.

Keep preparing!


Kind regards.

MrJ

Thank you for your response, Wagner.

Perhaps we could use this season as the preparation season with the BBHG beginning at the start of next season in-line with the regular BB season?

If you (and LOPO, and Demars, etc) are okay with it, I'm happy to have a crack at getting this BBHG off the ground!?
I think we need to try and get this thing started or, at the very least, get the preparation started so we can launch at the start of next season. We can use this season to recruit/finalise the format/decide on the number of teams competing etc.

I have already drafted some information on PickUps games, HG teams and have even started to flesh-out the Nomination process for teams to join the BBHG. They are drafts but maybe we can look at them and everyone's ideas and start narrowing down the league parameters so we can launch in Season 68? I note this not because I won't be fully HG until then, but it seems we still have a lot to decide on as a group to get his league ready and implemented.

As I am a supporter, and will be indefinitely, I am also willing to create any polls we think would help us move this along. We could do a few simple polls on types of formats; numbers of teams competing; and any other key areas we need some consensus on.

Returning to the above Fishbowl comparison, If I remember correctly, I believe the number of teams in each division grew as the league did. Therefore, we could begin by deciding that the first league will have say 16 teams in it made up of two divisions of eight (mimicking the current league setups) and run them in the same format as the Leagues we already know, including finals. We could see how this works (or doesn't) and adjust it for the follow-up season. The number '16' is just an example here. Maybe we won't more, or less to start with?

I guess my main point at the moment is that I think we should try and get this League moving along and hope more and more become involved in the process.

I have a couple more weeks of holidays before my time on BB (while remaining daily) will diminish in output considerably. I would happily try to start setting it up before then if that is what is required and wanted.

I don't want to step on anyone's toes or appear to be taking over other's great work. LOPO started this thread and, together with yourself, Wagner, (and others) have had some great discussions and back-and-forths. I think we need to start acting.

Slowly, others are starting to put up their hand and say, "Yes, I would like to be in this HG League."

The creation of a Federation could be another way to organise this?
Again, as a Supporter, I am willing to do this. However, I just discovered that LOPO has more recent experience creating Federations; something I have not done for over 20 seasons!

I'm sure we can come up with some way of having the BBHG begin.


Last edited by MrJ at 1/8/2025 8:39:59 AM