BuzzerBeater Forums

Pomoc - Hrvatski > Pitanja i Odgovori III

Pitanja i Odgovori III

Set priority
Show messages by
This Post:
11
234577.114 in reply to 234577.113
Date: 4/5/2013 3:38:08 PM
Critters
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
48284828
I još jedan post ako želite ići malo dublje u materiju...

I drugi post koji mi je pomogao da shvatim neke stvari...

Everything in BB works on curvs. So instead of like +5 = +5% where +1 = +1% its more like +5 = +20% and +1 =+0.5%

I think its something like this (amount of skill difference followed by percent bonus)
1 +.05
2 + 4
3 +9
4 +16
5 +20
6 +22.5
7 +23.75
8 +24.5
9 +25.
10 +25.01

Just very ruff estimate.... The percentage which is given is not taken from the secondary skills. There simply is not a bonus to the secondary skills and their amount of increase is by default pretty low.

Then I think in reverse when its a negative the amount of speed lost is given to the secondary skills as a bonus.

The issue is base speed differentials and how skills relate. now that crosstraining is added its a whole 'nother level of slowing and speeding up.

So like if its OD training then tis a comparison of OD versus ID,HA &DR. If OD is highest it will be slowed and a percentage of what is not seen as OD pops will be spread between the 3. OD is already slow, and what you lose is given as a very small amount to 2 skills HA/DR which train pretty fast, so its kinda like throwing away training if you think about it.

HA/DR are based on eachother and IS,JS,JR depending which 1on1 you train. Or OD if you do handles training PG. So it creates a squencing scenario. OD is tied to HA/DR/ID when trained pressure, and HA is tied to it when you train handles.

This creates certain skills which no matter what are not really increased by other skills too much and or train pretty fast anyway so its not a big issue, actually a benefit to get secondary pop over primary pop for that skill, since it trains faster than its secondary, if that makes sense.

Ok well I probably lost you somewhere along the way, best to explain with numbers I guess.

Lets say DR base for 1on1 is like .5, and that is in a two position mode. Even one position OD is only like .4 .
If you train DR 10 weeks, and it ends up the highest skill, it gets slowed to like .4 maybe towards the end (really it never goes that slow). The .1 you lose goes to IS and JS anyway...so not a big loss!!!!!. now when you train OD, lets say 10 weeks its speed is upped to .5 from .4 .

If you start with OD training, its gonna get held back by low HA/DR (Im ignoring Id for now but I'll throw in a tidbit about it later) and go as low as .3 by the last couple pops (if you go 10 weeks)

People wont see that maybe DR/HA/ID pops from a slowed OD training, cuz it starts arleady like slow .4 and you get a small percentage of that, maybe 10 or 20% divided between 3 skills... thats .04/3 or like .12/3 and people will say it takes 10 weeks to get the pop, and that is about right.

So if you did OD first 10 weeks, then 1on1 10 weeks= you get 3~4 OD pops
If you train 1on1 first, then OD, you probably get 5+. I got 2 pops in a row on my 19 y/o in OD because I set up elastic effect. If you find anyone with a 6'5'' player popping 2 weeks in a row in OD when OD is highest stat, higher than ID,HR,DR let me know!!!!! I doN7t think its possilbe. Only possible with elastic effect. 2 pops in a row means a minimum training speed of .51. Some peopel take 3 weeks to pop OD, even at like 18. That means max speed.48. but its more likely I have around .55 and more people are around .4 even when young if OD is hest stat. Its around 10% speed bonus I think if they are apart by even 2 and I think around 10% penatly the opposite direction.

The extra DR/HA pops you might get fro training OD first, even if symetrical in teh application, are not as valuable as the OD pops since DR already trains faster. 1 OD pop is worth about 1.5 to 2 DR pops because of the base training speeds difference.

Evolucija Ide U Pogrešnom Smjeru...
This Post:
11
234577.115 in reply to 234577.114
Date: 4/5/2013 3:45:05 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
113113
hvala na opsirnom objasnjenju, sad mi je elastic effect puno jasniji

This Post:
11
234577.116 in reply to 234577.115
Date: 4/5/2013 3:51:58 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
979979
hvala na opsirnom objasnjenju, sad mi je elastic effect puno jasniji


ja tek sad nista ne kuzim :P

This Post:
00
234577.117 in reply to 234577.111
Date: 4/5/2013 5:29:33 PM
Lavanda 91-ers
A-1 Superliga
Overall Posts Rated:
135135
Još bi pridodao da su tu neki skilovi vezani za druge, a neki ne...uglavnom to nekako ide vanjski s vanjskima, a unutarnji s unutarnjima...a dodavanja jedina nisu vezana za ništa...


dodavanja su isto tako vezana za vodjenje i ulaz

This Post:
00
234577.118 in reply to 234577.117
Date: 4/6/2013 2:33:15 AM
Critters
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
48284828
Da, ali po mom iskustvu ne i elastic efektom...možda se varam, ali nisam primjetio takvu koheziju dodavanja s vođenjem i ulazom kakvu ima vanjska obrana...i dodavanja su uvijek napredovala bez problema čak i u slučajevima kad su bila daleko najviši skil...

Evolucija Ide U Pogrešnom Smjeru...
This Post:
11
234577.119 in reply to 234577.118
Date: 4/6/2013 4:33:24 AM
Lavanda 91-ers
A-1 Superliga
Overall Posts Rated:
135135
(27668426)

prosle sezone poceo trening sa vodjenjem i ulazom 7, a dodavanje 1...nakon 4 tjedna treninga ulaz i vodjenje i dalje 7, dodavanje 5! :)

This Post:
00
234577.120 in reply to 234577.117
Date: 4/6/2013 8:26:37 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
706706
Još bi pridodao da su tu neki skilovi vezani za druge, a neki ne...uglavnom to nekako ide vanjski s vanjskima, a unutarnji s unutarnjima...a dodavanja jedina nisu vezana za ništa...


dodavanja su isto tako vezana za vodjenje i ulaz


Moram malo demantirati obojicu.

Prvo sam provjerio u starom coach parrotu, a zatim u novom training simulatoru. To je onaj alat nastao iz teme o crowd sourcingu gdje su ljudi davali skillove i treninge itd. da bi se doznalo šta koji trening trenira.

Uglavnom, kad se trenira dodavanje - to trenira malo i vođenje i ulaz što znači da tu ima elastic effecta. Zato je antonio imao dobar napredak s dodavanjem.

S druge strane, kad se trenira vođenje i ulaz, dodavanje ne dobiva ni milimetra treninga pa nema elastica. Zato je i Ray u pravu. Donekle. Nije baš da dodavanje nije vezano nizašto. ;)

pozz

This Post:
00
234577.121 in reply to 234577.120
Date: 4/6/2013 9:17:06 AM
Critters
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
48284828
Uglavnom, kad se trenira dodavanje - to trenira malo i vođenje i ulaz što znači da tu ima elastic effecta. Zato je antonio imao dobar napredak s dodavanjem.


Pa u biti vođenje i ulaz su dosta jaki sekundarci kod treninga dodavanja, ali to ne znači da obavezno ima elastic efekta ovdje...možda je on ovdje manje izražen, pa dolazi do izražaja samo kod velikih razlika u spomenutim skilovima...svakako se ne ponaša jednako kao odnos između unutarnjeg šuta i unutarnje obrane, ili vanjske obrane i ulaza/vođenja...

Evolucija Ide U Pogrešnom Smjeru...
This Post:
00
234577.122 in reply to 234577.121
Date: 4/6/2013 10:55:01 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
706706
Pa u biti vođenje i ulaz su dosta jaki sekundarci kod treninga dodavanja, ali to ne znači da obavezno ima elastic efekta ovdje...

Dugotrajno istraživanje na mnogo uzoraka pokazuje da elastica obavezno IMA tako da ću ja tom istraživanju vjerovati. Koliko je izražen, to je druga stvar. Ali ga ima. A s ovim da se ne ponaša jednako kao drugi skillovi se slažem.

This Post:
00
234577.123 in reply to 234577.122
Date: 4/6/2013 12:38:42 PM
Lavanda 91-ers
A-1 Superliga
Overall Posts Rated:
135135
ja sam napisao:

dodavanja su isto tako vezana za vodjenje i ulaz


sto znaci da kad treniras dodavanje kao skill onda ulaz i vodjenje imaju udio elastic effecta u treningu skilla dodavanje, nijednom ja nisam implicirao da dodavanja povlaci ellastic effekt kod treninga vodjenja ili ulaza

ako se ne varam kod treninga ulaza ellastic effect skillovi bi bili vodjenje i skok sut (mozda i sut iznutra ako se trenira na KR/KC), a kod vodjenja bi bili ulaz i skok sut

This Post:
00
234577.124 in reply to 234577.123
Date: 4/6/2013 1:59:16 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
706706
ako se ne varam kod treninga ulaza ellastic effect skillovi bi bili vodjenje i skok sut (mozda i sut iznutra ako se trenira na KR/KC), a kod vodjenja bi bili ulaz i skok sut

Ne skok šut nego vanjska obrana. Provjereno. ;)

Advertisement